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Underground > Radio & Music >

Nirvana

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18:01 / 28.10.02

I like nirvana because they were the last time that any external influence made me feel enything other than a negative emotion.

They made me think that something other than what you knew was possible and that it was worth taking the hits in the fight.

18:54 / 28.10.02

'Newsweek' put Cobain on their cover last week:

cobain in newsweek

Somewhat interesting, I guess, but why release his journals? Is Courtney Love broke?

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:46 / 29.10.02

Saw the ad for the Nirvana boxset on MTV Dance... Just another rock band...

08:51 / 30.10.02

There were a lot of bands around at the same time or before Nirvana who produced equally good music in a similar vein - Pixies, Husker Du, Sonic Youth, Janes Addiction, Dinosaur Jr, Smashing Pumpkins. Nirvana were somewhat lucky in being in the right place at the right time, having global marketing support from Geffen (via a connection with Sonic Youth), a decent producer (Butch Vig) and a reasonable songwriter (Cobain). And a bunch of kids pissed of with 80s hair metal and the prospect of no jobs in the recession-screwed early 90s.

What made them iconic was Cobain's messed-up personality. He wants people to hear his music. He wants to communicate. He's not so sure about this fame bullshit. He's confused and disorientated. He has recurrent drug problem and a wife as self-destructive as he is. He seems, well, absurdly human. And we're not sure we want our popstars human.

I'm trying to think of comparison figures but none of them really fit. Maybe Sly Stone in the early 70s? Dunno.

20:01 / 03.11.02

Funnily enough, we were talking in the pub the other day, you know, like you do, and we were trying to think what the best thing to come out of the nineties was - musicwise. And twas generally agreed that Nevermind was probably the best album.
Now you might think that this was a bunch of metalheads, but essentially, it was a metalhead (me), a big trance fan (or whatever they call themselves), a crusty/punk, a dance music producer, someone who thinks musicals are the highest form of entertainment and my missus, who remains a law unto herself.
Perhaps it was that we could all agree that make Nirvana good. You know, like the Beatles.

I'm going to have to agree with Rothkoid about the 'need to be American' bit. The reason I liked Nirvana was that metal wasn't really going anyplace at the time. Never mind the hair metal bollocks, I wasn't playing that shite. There was a nice spread of metal through the seventies and eighties - people always say punk killed rock but forget that Motorhead were about at the same time. And the first two Iron Maiden albums worked well... New Wave of British Heavy Metal... it all went a bit wanky and then it got pulled out of the bag by the coming of thrash (Metallica, Anthrax et al) and then it seemed it just got to a stage where there didn't seem to be a direction other than 'faster'. And then a whole bunch of bands seemed to come out of the woodwork - including Alice in Chains and the other bands mentioned earlier. Maybe it didn't happen that chronologically, but that was how I got exposed to it. And then Nirvana, who made long hair less difficult.
Thank you for your attention.

All Acting Regiment

14:04 / 30.08.03

About those 14 year olds in nirvana hoodies in london you mentioned. I hate to say this, but it is very, very rare to find a 14 year old who is truly interested in music for any other reason than image.

I might have authority on this, im probably the youngest here (college). The fact is that cobain had a "negative" view of himself- let's take this as fact for the basis of this srgument. The average, and rember, average, fourteen year old thinks they are the best person in the world. Parents, teachers- what a bunch of arses. "Im not a boff/geek/whatever". This is the kind of little shit that hangs around shopping centres in tracky bottoms and throws sweet wrappers at people.

We have to remember that Nirvana awareness died down (sorry) a little after they had "finished", with oasis coming into fashion. When i was fourteen, if you were found to be listening to (gasp) "some gay (sic) long haired rock band" you were seen as not cool. This is why a tiny ammount of kids were into the band. They were truly an alternative, because even though they were huge, they were relatively unheard of to fourteen year olds in britain.

However, the times they-are-a-changing. Some people would like to beleive that "regular-cool-trendy" music is becoming more open to new ideas, i.e. rock music, electro-clash. This is not the case. The case in point is that a new market has opened up, so a student can pick up NME and read about the strokes or the hypes and a 14 year old can pick up kerrang, read about nirvana, get told that nirvana are cool, and then listen to them, and wear the hoodies.

I doubt that these kids- with a few exceptions who are probably nice folks- actually understand the themes of isolation, depression and anger present in the music. For fuck's sakes, how many kids in london that grew up in the same conditions as kurt have acess to a cd player? Same goes for up-their-arse students who think they "know" joy division- if they don't come from manchester, they can forget it.

I know that was a load of opinion but it might add to the conversation. My points being summarised as - "Kids being into music for wrong reasons because they've been sold to".

15:22 / 30.08.03

Oh, fuck off.

You don't think teenagers understand "isolation, depression and anger"? Thats the essence of a teenager. I fucking hate the way everyone sells kids short. You were not the last great generation of teenagers.

Same goes for up-their-arse students who think they "know" joy division- if they don't come from manchester, they can forget it.

Right. And I'm the only one on Barbelith that understands The Sonics and The Wailers. And Nico Case. Sorry folks, you just don't get it.

Matthew Fluxington

15:46 / 30.08.03

About those 14 year olds in nirvana hoodies in london you mentioned. I hate to say this, but it is very, very rare to find a 14 year old who is truly interested in music for any other reason than image.

Oh right, and no one else is interested in image at all. Riiiiiiiiight.

Everything has an image, man. The pop people and the teenagers are just more aware of it. If you were the least bit selfaware, you'd see that you're obviously just as beholden to image as these kids - only you're being reactionary. There's a reason why college radio is a hotbed of indie snobbishness - it's all about appealing to a bunch of immature kids reacting against other people and their old selves by conciously going for "imageless" (ha!) and supposedly sophisticated music. The anti-image is image too, brother. And the anti-image consumer is often a greater slave to image than anyone else.

That said, image isn't a bad thing. It's just a thing. Get over it. It's part of life.

And fuck off. For most people, the music that touches them when they are a teen is the music that touches them most deeply in their lifetime. When you're too young to deal with irony, and you're just appreciating things on this crazy earnest level, and it feels like the MUSIC IS TALKING DIRECTLY TO YOU - that's a great thing. Fuck off with yr snobbery, man. Leave the kids alone.

18:00 / 30.08.03

About those 14 year olds in nirvana hoodies in london you mentioned. I hate to say this, but it is very, very rare to find a 14 year old who is truly interested in music for any other reason than image.

I'd have fucking kicked your ass if you'd said that to me when I was 14 and listening to 'In Utero' every day.

Well I'd have tried and failed and gotten my glasses broken at the very least..

Same goes for up-their-arse students who think they "know" joy division- if they don't come from manchester, they can forget it.

*comedy doubletake* Actually - go die.

Flux's last paragraph = yeah.

22:43 / 30.08.03

That said, image isn't a bad thing. It's just a thing. Get over it. It's part of life.

actually, it's a good thing. if there was no image, we'd be blind.

rock needs image. this is why, for example, mtv worked out. and why we have a concept of cool. and why johhny rotten's hair was so important. etc.

and to bring it back top topic, when you see footage of nirvana playing even with the sound off, the image of cobain is very... moving.

see also: elvis' hips; kathleen hanah's majic markered stomach; etc; etc.

09:18 / 01.09.03

I absolutely agree, I'd never seen nirvana play and I'll never forget seeing the first time I did in some fucking arcade, I was a.....very happy happy happy happy boy completely consumed while everyone else there was playing their videogame or whatever, I must of been the only one watching. it's fucking amazing to finally see that band that you've been listening to for so long, and it was hilarious, because it was the in bloom music video, with the buddy holly glasses and the dresses. it was great, a holy moment ya know.
that said, I hate you know you're right, too whiney, like get over it man, quit the band, whatever, just be happy and don't kill yourself.
and what the hell is a modified version of teen spirit doing in the fucking moulin rouge? oh well, whatever it's not their best song.

10:02 / 01.09.03

Yeh, I really do have to say that- You've gotten to college you haven't noticed that yr pain and sadness isn't more sad and painful then anyone elses?? Seriously, it may have been said elsewhere already, but 14 yr olds really don't get anything other then isolation, depression and anger. And yes, this makes them irritating to be around. It makes them irritating to be around themselves. And so it continues.

Speaking as, you know, an authority on this (nebulously post-A Levels, pre-degree), I'd just like to say you have a whole fantastic world awaiting you when you grow up and realise that teenagers A: have genuinly valid feelings that, no, they really can't control and B: know exactly how they're being sold things, and why they're being sold things, and how brands work, and really just don't give a fuck.

11:44 / 01.09.03

Oh yeh, and "they were a true alternative", and so it's OK for them to like Nirvana? The fuck?? So people can only be touched by music if no one else is getting touched by music? Given the tastes of most of the people I was friend's with in 6th Form, I could probablly put myself down as being a "true alternative" for liking Xtina, but it would clearly be bollocks to believe this makes me speical, or that I am getting music more then anyone else I knew.

Honestly, no one really cares if music is alternative, and just because Kerrang! sells more then NME now, esp to teenagers, really doesn't mean Nirvana have sold out any more then they had when Kurt was still whinning to MTV that they weren't playing his videos enough, and he was censoring himself to get into WalMart.

Tryphena Absent

12:22 / 01.09.03

it is very, very rare to find a 14 year old who is truly interested in music for any other reason than image.

Whtevr. Hang on... truly interested in music for any other reason than image. I spent my early teens absolutely terrified of image. Teenagers need a big social group, alternative or mainstream, to fit in to. Nirvana were and continue to be one of those bands that let pissed off kids feel better about themselves. Image makes the world liveable when you see the same people day after day. You are just being nasty to a significant proportion of the worlds population that needs something terribly.

The Natural Way

12:57 / 01.09.03

Well, when I was a teen I was obsessed with image and music.
TBH, though, there wasn't much isolation/pain/blah reflected in the stuff I listened to.

Now I don't violently disagree with this or anything

For about two years, it almost seemed like we, as an audience and buying public, were going to exercise some control over what we were fed.

and I'm sure Nirvana did make Vid and others feel like this, but, HELLO!, dance music!!! The rave scene was exactly about the kids' tastes dictating the market, even if it didn't contain lyrics about how pained we all were. The majors didn't have a fucking clue about how to sell this stuff.

But, yeah, anyway, Nirvana were cool.

08:22 / 02.09.03

"censoring himself to get into WalMart." you know he did that because when he was a kid the only store he could get his music from was a walmart. its in heavier than heaven.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

13:39 / 02.09.03

Bio K9 You don't think teenagers understand "isolation, depression and anger"? Thats the essence of a teenager.

That's the same bullshit line that stopped me from wanting to watch The Virgin Suicides. Speaking as a former 'spent too much time in their room looking at the wallpaper and thinking about how no-one truly understood the darkness in my soul'type I can safely say that is complete and utter bollocks.

Never trust anyone under the age of 20.

Except for Pin.

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