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Magick elitism

11:52 / 26.09.02

Damn! Got the Lesser Key of Solomon just to find out I'll never be able to afford all the material necessary to perform the rituals, or the means to make them (gold seals, copper seal, silver seals, calf's skin etc etc).
How do you people circumvent these impediments, all the expensive stuff you have to come up with in order to get one of those underground bastids to show up in your basement? Do you really have to be rich to become a bona fide magickian?

12:12 / 26.09.02

Everyone should try Chaos magick, its what all the crazy kids are doing these days (or at least used to)...

Sorry I need a rant about chaos magick turning into Golden Dawn reborn, but this isn't the place...

Sorry

12:14 / 26.09.02

HA!

I used to get fustrated with this too. That is until I realized, that I could substitute as long as the substitution had similar properties. Besides, the "real magick" is in you, that other stuff is all props...Fun sometimes, especially if you can afford it, but still just a prop to trick the ego.

~MT

12:20 / 26.09.02

Damn!

I would just love to do a bit of ceremonial magick as theatre. I am sure it has been done before but I have never tried it.

just a thought...wrong thread

back to the topic now kids!

14:46 / 26.09.02

Do you really have to be rich to become a bona fide magickian?

Hahahahhaaah hahhahhaaahhah haahhaahaahhahha hahahahahahahahaha hahahhahahhahahhahaha hhahhahhahhahhahhahah ......... ......... .............. ......

.................STOP.

15:16 / 26.09.02

Umm... that wasn't really much helpful, was it?

15:33 / 26.09.02

Just get what you can and if you can't afford something, find a decent substitute.

It's like in chemistry, if you don't have a certain chemical, you can usually use a common household chemical as a substitute.

16:20 / 26.09.02

I'm not sure if using substitutes is the safest way of dealing with Asmoday, you know?

"I see you're not using my golden seal"
"Well... er... I didn't have the money so I made one with paperclips. Figured you wouldn't mind, ya know?"
"Oh, I see. Well, I think I'll chew your intestines for awhile now."

16:27 / 26.09.02

Then don't invoke Asmoday.

Just kidding...

Really.

17:36 / 26.09.02

I'd think long and hard before invoking GD demons without the requisite props. However - if you do chaos magic training, and work on visualisation to the degree that your astral magick skills are really good, you could probably just do a spell visualising all the ingredients being used. It would be a tremendous effort - certainly more difficult than using all those props - but it would be cheaper.

This is why I like voudoun-based paradigms: they were dreamt up by people with bugger-all money, so they tend to ignore all this 'five gold bars, an emerald brooch, and a yard of brushed red velvet' nonsense.

And if all else fails, and you can't be arsed invoking the Goetic demons - just make your own. Hell, I have, on occassion.

18:32 / 26.09.02

The first of the workings mentioned here describes some effects from not using the full trappings.
Never tried anything like this, my two pennyworth: perhaps some of the difficulties involved work as a kind of sacrifice of time and energy to increase the sense of dedication to the working? If you were devoted enough to pull together some props it might increase the feeling it would bloody well work.

18:52 / 26.09.02

Yeah, but how do I make sure that the Spirit will WANT the white linen robe and DON'T MIND about the Silver Ring in my middle finger, or the opposite? I'll be treading thin ice there, no doubt...
I think I'll try some research in Enochian magick - anyone knows if the required materials are simpler?

What is making me change my mind about Goetia workings is this excerpt from the link provided by Mr. Illmatic (thanks, by the way):

"Both saw Vassago in the triangle by the end of the first Evocation as a flickering tornado, out of which, Abbadon saw first a horse's legs, then spider legs."

I'm arachnophobic. If I see something that slightly resembles a spider, I'll freak out and lose it right on the spot. Prospects are getting grimmer and grimmer...

Nietzsch E. Coyote

21:23 / 26.09.02

The main materials you need for enochian can be made by you.
That is if you can afford to carve up a table.

Wood working and painting.
And you need something to skry with.

Take a nice bowl fill it with water and food color that water opaque.

12:35 / 27.09.02

'"Both saw Vassago in the triangle by the end of the first Evocation as a flickering tornado, out of which, Abbadon saw first a horse's legs, then spider legs."

I'm arachnophobic. If I see something that slightly resembles a spider, I'll freak out and lose it right on the spot. Prospects are getting grimmer and grimmer...'

Bear in mind that the main route to gnosis in Goetic evocation is FEAR...you're not sitting down for a chat with granny so unless you're shitting bricks perhaps you're not going to get very far...

I wouldn't worry too much about having all the right 'ingredients'. A lot of that stuff seemned to be thrown in to a) put a lot of non-commited people who hadn't studied 'right' and hard enough off and hence b) put off the peasants from doing magick and keep it for the upper classes. All bollocks off course but this stuff was mostly written in the 16th and 17th centurys. I'm not saying that you shouldn't obey a lot of the 'rules' but you can replace a lot of the bits and pieces.

Although saying that there isn't really any reason not to break the rules...fuck it...you're the magician...i've talked to friends who throw out the whole cirle and triangle thing and go for a Goetic Invocation becoming possesed by whatever demon but it proberly isn't something to try straight away...

I havn't looked at goetic stuff for a while now but i keep meaning to start some work back up...My own initial experiences were some very vivid dream invasions by Purson along with some strong syncronisities...

A good book to get is Lon Milo DuQuettes' 'My Life with the Spirits' were he tals about Goetic and Enochian Evocation in a very down to earth, often very funny way...

15:06 / 27.09.02

Of course, if you do manage to collect all those parts, the effort and energy(=money) spent will greatly increase the power of the working. What you put in is what you get out.

03:33 / 06.03.04

Ok...not to get off subject here or anything...but I summoned Vassago without the use of anything but the seal and a small mirror...and I am a beginner...However, i dont reccomend doing it if it is your first time, cuse it scared the shit out of me...I felt like I wasnt prepared and my room starts freaking out...my animals wake up, squeak and shy away into their hiding places and things flew, and I mean flew halfway across the room, from the walls. So...understandably, I was freaked out. So...Yeah...

10:36 / 06.03.04

I'm not sure if using substitutes is the safest way of dealing with Asmoday, you know?

"I see you're not using my golden seal"
"Well... er... I didn't have the money so I made one with paperclips. Figured you wouldn't mind, ya know?"
"Oh, I see. Well, I think I'll chew your intestines for awhile now."

I really don't think it matters how you invoke demons, what matters is how strong your mind, magical knowledge/wisdom and your will is.

If your a good enough magician, Asmoday won't be chewing your intestines without regretting it.

warcraftventurer

17:20 / 09.03.04

This is always the key with any type of magick, all of these items the rings, scents, robe, pentacles, every single thing on you and the altar is to trick the mind sot hat you become ready to perform the magick. Remember this above all other things, Gods of a previous religion become demons of the next. Look up some information on Astaroth and then look at Astarte on the Sumerian religion,say if you see any resemblences.

17:22 / 09.03.04

If you really want the Solomon seals, I found a set of greeting cards that came with little amulets of the seals. One seal per card.

Yes, really.

You'd give someone a Good Luck card with a little ancient magickal amulet attached.