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The God Spot , Paranormal Experiences, and Direct Electrical Stimulation.

 
 
grant
15:27 / 24.09.02
Nature gets religion.

excerpt:
People describe out-of-body experiences as feeling that their consciousness becomes detached from their body, often floating above it. Because these lucid states are popularly linked to the paranormal, "a lot of people are reluctant to talk about them", says neurologist Olaf Blanke of Geneva University Hospital in Switzerland.

Blanke found that electrically stimulating one brain region — the right angular gyrus — repeatedly triggers out-of-body experiences. Blanke and his team were using electrodes to excite the brain of a woman being treated for epilepsy.

The right angular gyrus integrates visual information — the sight of your body — and information that creates the mind's representation of your body. This is based on balance and feedback from your limbs about their position in space.

"It makes perfect sense," agrees Peter Brugger of University Hospital, Zurich, in Switzerland, who studies the phenomenon. "We have representations of our entire body that can be dissociated from our real body," he says. But this is an isolated case, he points out.

With gentle stimulation, the woman, who could speak during the operation, felt she was falling or growing lighter. As the intensity increased she told them: "I see myself lying in bed, from above."


What I'd like to know is how our brains manage to do this without electrodes. And, of course, I'd like to know how to do this with a home-made transcranial magnetic stimulation device.
 
 
cusm
17:48 / 24.09.02
I'd just like to note here, that while her brain disassociated her image of her body, she was still able to see it as floating above her body, rather than hallucinating images of herself as one might have with such a disassociation. In other words, that her perspective changed such is I think notable that more is going on here than the disassociation itself.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:00 / 01.10.02
don't think the homemade gizmo is going to cut it. I mean, in theory maybe you could use the magnetic field to stimulate a region of the brain, but in practice I don't see how you could focus the field on a specific area.

I don't see how you could do this without doing what Blanke did and opening up the brain for a good old poke around. And I really hope you weren't planning to do anything that in your garage. Whatever would the neigbours think?
 
 
gridley
13:50 / 04.10.02
I'm now having visions of myself with this long electric needle wrapped in copper wire poking out from the back of my head.

I visited Atlantis in college via astral projection, and though I've never been able to duplicate the experience, I've been pursuing mysticism ever since with the hopes of one day going back.

It would be neat if some gadget could help jump start things.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
11:27 / 29.10.02
heh, its probably in long past threads, but the science of OBE's has interested me for a long time... (i have actually hung a large magnet above my head at nights in the past) i still beleive theres somekind of sound frequency that can perhaps put you in the gnostic state required to OBE

im begining to wonder if i am actually insane
 
 
woodswalker
11:53 / 29.10.02
A good source for info on OBEs here, http://www.monroeinstitute.org/.
Apparently we have the ability to wander away at will. We just need training. I have always hesitated to do this for fear of "black hats". Maybe too many spooky movies as a kid. I do find the idea very intriguing.
 
 
grime
21:56 / 29.10.02
A prof/"neurotheologian" at Laurentian University in Sudbury Ontario recently built a helmet that basically does the same thing. Of all the test subjects unknowingly strapped into it, about 80% reported experiencing what they described as religious experiences ranging from out-of-body experiences to conact with other, discrete pressences.

If you lived in Sudbury you'd do anything to escape too.
 
 
dj kali_ma
15:35 / 18.12.02
As far as the OOB goes, a way to scientifically see whether or not the perception of seeing ourselves floating above our bodies is at all accurate, an experiment could be done where the aforementioned sweet spot is stimulated, the person is induced to be in a communicative state, and do things around the body (such as hold up a card or a number of fingers over their bellies, far away from their eyes) and ask how many fingers are being held up, or what card is being held up.

If it turns out with any sort of accuracy, that could, theoretically mean that stimulation of that particular part of our brains is plugging us into the awareness that we have outside of our skin... it may be clicking us into our awareness of ourselves as just a slow-moving solid congealment in spacetime in the middle of a much larger nebula of consciousness (still identified with an "individual soul" for lack of better words on my part), which is further connected to a matrix of... uh... everything.

I have no bloody idea if I'm making any sense. I need more tea. And very strong.

::aphonia::
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
13:11 / 21.12.02
just had a thought. If the electical stimulation produces the effect, perhaps when we use meditation techiniques to OBE, were concentrating our thought (and electrical activity in the brain(?) on the god spot, giving the same effect.

i try to stay open to all possibilites, wether my OBE's are my brain short circuiting orsomething more spiritual... or both
 
 
grant
16:17 / 23.12.02
That's actually the prevailing researcher belief.
It's also the fuel behind research into psychedelics like DMT, which occurs naturally in the brain.
 
 
microcitoyen
03:57 / 26.01.03
I'm a student at Laurentian University.

I was hired by one of the Neuroscience department's students to be part of an experiment with the magnetic field helmet.

It was a controlled experiment. Once a week, I would have to sit in a sound proof room, in the dark, with the strange helmet strapped to my head. I didn't notice anything strange the first week, but the second week was a little strange. I kept seeing a red light out of the corner of my eye. I could never quite focus on it but it just kept "swooping" overhead every once in a while.

Anyhoo, I haven't been kept up to date with the results. I just thought you might find it interesting.

I have another friend in the same neuroscience department who's doing preliminary research to use the magnetic pulse as a pain-killer.
 
 
LVX23
23:53 / 28.01.03
I wonder if the subject of the original experiment could see the doctor and apparatus attached to the back of her head while she was OOB, or if it was simply a generic "hovering over my body" experience.

sttab wrote:
"...perhaps when we use meditation techiniques to OBE, were concentrating our thought (and electrical activity in the brain(?) on the god spot, giving the same effect."

This is a common analysis and probably pretty close to the mark. There is documented research indicating that melatonin can be endogenously metabolised into DMT by application of sound frequencies such as mantras, specifically the aum base resonance frequency. (Richard Strassman was the researcher, published in "Psychedelic Monographs and Essays #5" - sorry I can't find an url). Also see James Austin's "Zen & the Brain" for a much more thorough analysis of the correlations between meditative states and neurochemistry.

I've also heard suggestins that John's vision on the road to Damascus was remarkably similar to many visions experienced during temporal lobe epileptic seizures. Clearly the there is a fine line between mind & matter in the subtle manipulation of electrochemical potentials of neural complexes.
 
 
grant
13:17 / 29.01.03
melatonin can be endogenously metabolised into DMT

Really?
I'm just reading Strassman's book (DMT: The Spirit Molecule), and he goes on about how strange it is that melatonin and DMT coexist in the pineal with apparently no relation to one another. (They do different things and, I'd assumed, were chemically dissimilar - had different receptors, I thought.)
I'd be really interested to read any further experiments that showed how the one can relate to the other.
 
 
LVX23
17:20 / 29.01.03
Huh, that's odd. I read it several years ago in "Psychedelic Monograph's and Essay's # 5", which is difficult to find these days. Erowid lists the specific article, "The Pineal Gland: Current evidence for it's role in consciousness", and attributes it to Dr. Richard Strassman. But I checked his site and couldn't find any reference to this article. Perhaps it is listed wrong on Erowid...
 
 
LVX23
17:33 / 29.01.03
I found a couple of other references to this article, crediting Strassman as the author. It may be that in Spirit Molecule he is saying that there is no natural endogenous conversion of melatonin to DMT, but that it is possible to induce the conversion by the application of sound frequencies, as I recall him stating in The Pineal Gland.

I've sent him email requesting the article, as well as clarification. I'm sure he's a busy guy so it may take a while to get a response. In the meantime I'll continue to try to track down the original article.
 
 
Enamon
17:58 / 29.01.03
Moving off the DMT topic here, why not just ask someone in the Magic forum who's already had experience with inducing OOBE's into performing some kind of experiment for us? That person, being the subject, attempts to induce an out of body experience while an assistant in an adjoining room (well it doesnt have to be adjoining, it can be in any part of the house) either holds up a sign, and/or, brings in (Into the house.i.e. he has with him) a foreign object of some sort (i.e. An object with which the subject is not familiar with i.e. if he sees it he'll recognize it for what it is but will have no expectation of it being the chosen object. An example would be a small stone sphere. The subject doesnt know that the assisstant has a stone sphere in the next room however if the experiment is successful he would be able to describe it.) Once the subject is out of body he projects into the next room and describes either the sign or the object. While I recommend that both types be used (i.e. both sign and object) I suspect that the subject will have more trouble with the sign as an out of body experience involves stimulating a certain part of the brain and doing so might hinder reading ability (note: This is a hypothesis. The experiment, if performed with both a sign and an object and if successful, can be used to determine if the preceding hypothesis holds weight or not.) The experiment itself is quite simple. My only other recommendations are that once the subject comes out of his out of body experience, that he write his results down RIGHT AWAY. After doing so, he should call out loudly so that the assisstant may come to him and examine his results. Upon this examination the subject will be told if he is correct or not. Also, as a safety measure, I believe that this experiment should be performed a few times (With the sign, and foreign object differing with every experiment.) The reason for this is that if something goes wrong for whatever reason, the experiment should be done again to determine if the failure lay within the subject's ability (or in this case inability) to produce an authentic out-of-body experience or if the fault lay in some outside factor.
 
  
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