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What is Asteron?

 
 
reFLUX
19:45 / 23.09.02
i was 'chanelling' in the bath last night and this name came to me. i was wondering who or what is Asteron?
thanks.
 
 
Ambicath
20:16 / 23.09.02
Asteron is Greek for 'star'.

e.g. Astronomy = asteron + nomos (the law of the stars).
 
 
William Sack
20:23 / 23.09.02
He was also a blow-hard, braggart of a villain, second in command to the evil lord Dragor according to some Power Rangers fanboy shit I have just read.
 
 
gridley
21:11 / 23.09.02
ha! you we're channeling the power rangers!

now, me, I prefer to channel digimon. especially renamon.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:20 / 23.09.02
aster is (Ancient) Greek for star. The genitive singular is "asteros", which suggests a genitive plural "asteron" - of the stars. Except that I have a feeling it shortens to "astr-". So "Asteron" would mean not very much. Possibly a mishearing of the many spellings of Ashtoreth? Or possibly a cognate of the Sanskrit, which I think is "ster-". There's a Germanic version too, but buggered if I know it.
 
 
Ambicath
15:31 / 24.09.02
Sure, let's not make it easy, shall we?

Aster = star, asteres = stars.
Asteron in fact does mean something and is not a mishearing.
More specifically, ton asteron means of the stars.
Don't ask me about the grammar but anyway that's what it means.
 
 
Ambicath
15:36 / 24.09.02
...and nomos ton asteron means 'law of the stars' and is where we got the word astronomy.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:59 / 24.09.02
I don't mean to patronise you, but there is no "e" in "astronomy". Since you have failed to notice that, I'm not holding my breath on your Ancient Greek declensions.

I'll have a look in Liddell and Scott tonight, but honestly I don't fancy your chances. Especially since, as any fule kno, the gen. plural of aster, while it is spelled "asteron" in English, is in fact a victim of our terrible paucity of "o"s, as it has an omega, not an omicron, at the end, and therefore would be pronounced "asterawn". But of course, you knew that. Obviously.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:00 / 24.09.02
I'm all excited now. I may get to use my exciting new catchphrase.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:03 / 24.09.02
(this is, obviously, assuming that Ambicath is right about the genitive plural of "aster", which as I say is somewhat doubtful)
 
 
w1rebaby
17:12 / 24.09.02
this board ain't big enough for two classicists
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:15 / 24.09.02
A classicist would probably have known that "we" got the word "astronomy" from the Latin astronomia, which they in turn "got" from the Greek adjective "astronomos", meaning "star-arranging".
 
 
w1rebaby
17:31 / 24.09.02
Well, if I'm going to be denied Clash of the Titans, I'd at least like to hear this new catchphrase. Go on.
 
 
William Sack
17:39 / 24.09.02
Hmm, the Latin astronomia came from the Greek astronomia. Astronomos (noun rather than adjective) means astronomer - perhaps you were thinking of the adjective astronomikos. I could be wrong, but I agree with you on gen. pl astron.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
18:26 / 24.09.02
Well, if I'm going to be denied Clash of the Titans, I'd at least like to hear this new catchphrase. Go on.

I know! I've been waiting, eagerly. That Haus really is a fucking tease.
 
 
Ambicath
20:24 / 24.09.02
*grins*
And here I just thought I'd learned something interesting. Hmmm. Well, first of all I was just surfing the web and passing on what I found. Analysing it wasn't quite what I'd intended, but for those obviously interested - at least you got to pass some time.
For those in doubt (although I actually thought it was pretty obvious) - I'm neither a classicist nor do I have the faintest idea about the Greek language.

Yes, amazingly enough I did notice there is no "e" in astronomy, for that matter there is no "os" either. The word comes from (through who knows how many links, greek, latin, whatever), not spells like it. I'd have thought there was a difference, but I guess that was just me.

What I so loosely interpreted was the ancient Greek in 'The schemata of the stars (Peri ton schematon ton asteron); Byzantine astronomy from A.D. 1300. World Scientific, 1998. And "'Daemonolgie' by King James VI of Scotland, I of England", 1597, Bodleian Library, Oxford - quote: "(...)which for that cause is called Astronomia, which word is a compound of (nomos) and (asteron) that is to say, the law of the stars(...)" end quote.

Anyway, for what it's worth it's quite fun to see you all digging away in your sources. And I bow to whatever you say regarding this topic. I can't promise I'll remember any of it tomorrow, though.
 
 
Ambicath
20:27 / 24.09.02
Ahumm, by the way Varis, any interesting info about that band Asteron, you mentioned? Just curious.
 
 
reFLUX
20:40 / 24.09.02
"any interesting info about that band Asteron, you mentioned?" i just found some web pages in Russian and German, which i can't read, but one of them had mp3's, so i guess they're a band. (i did the search on Google if ya want a listen)
thanks everone for the debate.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:01 / 24.09.02
Speaking only as one who has visited the libraries you had the good fortune to encounter on the Internet, and who has only the misfortune that

he on grown-up juice hath fed
and drunk the dark Aegean Sea


I would suggest only that, given my limited knowledge of Magic, if you feel the need to invoke something, work out how to say its name first.

Asteron, if such a thing there be (and the dative astrasi casts doubt on this), is indubitably devoid of a short "o" sound, notwithstanding the need for a nominative to go with it, and it is probably worth noting that the authorship of "On daemonologie" (that "o" again) is only dubiously associated to James I and VI.

But hey, what do I know? Ouden unless I visit the British Library or the Bodleian, neither of which is open right now.

But who am I to contest the power of Google? I would only beg that you avoid doing something asterikton, lest you end up expiring astephanos.
 
 
Ambicath
05:47 / 25.09.02
Wow, you've actually managed to move on from simply cantankerous to just desperately trying to make something out of this that was never there. Good luck

Naw, no Google. Copernic. Check it out, it's a cool tool. Spare you a trip to the library.

Yeah, I obviously did cut'n'paste from those websites. Was that so hard to figure out? Sadly enough, I don't have the amount of spare time needed to check out every possibly misspelled word on every website I visit, I'll leave that up to you. On that note - you should probably be informed that your struggles here are somewhat wasted. You see, I actually do not worry that someone out there might see me post something that turns out to be incorrect (if this was), nor do I mind to stand corrected afterwards. Your nightmare scenario, I presume, but not mine. But please, if only for enternaining purposes, do continue.
 
 
Seth
06:11 / 25.09.02
So, Varis: has any of this been helpful? A quick search has revealed this term used in many contexts... is this something you're going to continue to research? Have you had any experience of Asteron since your first post? Have your own investigations turned anything up?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:27 / 25.09.02
So....it doesn't matter to you if you are wrong, or if you mislead other people? Even if they are asking for more information for potentially involved magical process? And, although you don't "mind to stand corrected", you will defend incorrect information dogmatically, until your position becomes utterly untenab;e, at which point you will claim not to care anyway?

Well, there's not very much to say then.

hir- IIRC, "ho astronomos" (the astronomer) is derived from the adjective "astronomos" - classifying the stars (and one of the interesting things here is that nomos and "law" don't exactly overlap).
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
08:50 / 25.09.02
haus those languages are dead. DEAD no one really knows how they should sound. This kind of pedantry should be limited to headshop.

Varis 08 asked "who or what is Asteron?" No assumption of personhood there. Now as people hashed out it relates to stars maybe all stars or just a particular system. When you next journey try to find out more specifics.

If someone tried to invoke "all the stars" wouldn't the experience be similar to invoking Nuit?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:38 / 25.09.02
We aren't talking about dead languages, though - we're talking about possible rituals, invocation, and general magical crunchiness, and I think we may be heading for that decapitated uncle demonic possession moment.
 
 
William Sack
10:38 / 25.09.02
haus, you may well be right on "astronomos"/"ho astronomos" - I'm no Homer but I do nod. Often. My Liddell and Scott is in a box somewhere in my shit-heap of an attic so I won't check it.

However, what I definitely do NOT know is what channeling is. Is it something I could do in the shower rather than the bath?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:52 / 25.09.02
Not only that, but you can do it with one bottle, not two...

You have a big Liddell and Scott at home? I am evilly jealous. Keep meaning to buy one, to save reference hassle, but it would be such a bugger to move around, so might wait until I buy property. My god, I'm decorating around a Greek-English lexicon. I need help.

(You know, there's a pun in here somewhere...Nuit, Homerus ipse adnuit, but I'm not quite getting it)
 
 
William Sack
11:01 / 25.09.02
No my Liddell and Scott is a small one, but I do have a huge Lewis and Short if we're talking dic sizes.
Can't help with the pun.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:07 / 25.09.02
"Dic sizes". Oy vey.

For some reason I never found Lewis and Short as satisfying. I think because it doesn't have the same kind of sweaty, obsessive madness radiating off it's pages. It feels more like Lewis and Short got to gether over lunch, smoked a bowl and just kind of decided to write a dictionary.

"D00d! It's a dead language! How many words can there be?"
 
 
William Sack
11:14 / 25.09.02
I have just sought out my Lewis and Short, and I see what you mean about the editors throwing it together after a smoke. From reading the introduction it seems as though Professor Short must have thrown a whitey fairly early on, as he is responsible only for the words beginning with the letter A. Professor Charlton "Puffer" Lewis had to chug on through the rest of the alphabet.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:18 / 25.09.02
Ah, reminds me of the great concordance project that stalled for decades over which poor fucker had to do "n".

"D00D! No *way* am I getting 'n'. Like, tracing and citing every use of 'non' in Latin...great way to spend a coupla years...NON!"
 
  
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