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Pinchbeck book ties it all together.

 
  

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jaybabcock
17:02 / 23.09.02
Barbelithers will want to check out the website and forums for Daniel Pinchbeck's absolutely fantastic new book, BREAKING OPEN THE HEAD: A PSYCHEDELIC JOURNEY INTO THE HEART OF CONTEMPORARY SHAMANISM (Broadway/Random House)

http://www.breakingopenthehead.com

Drugs (DMT, DPT, mushrooms, etc.), shamanism, art, history, the occult and (very importantly) radical contemporary politics. This is The Invisibles in the format of a nonfiction book published by a mainstream book house. I can't recommend it highly enough.
 
 
Seth
19:25 / 23.09.02
I checked out the website last night after the last link you posted in the Headshop, abtractless spamboy. It looks like a great book if you're not already living it.
 
 
grant
21:27 / 23.09.02
play nice, expressionless. jay babcock is the tom before tom.

i want to know who the author is. and what the book is really like.
 
 
jaybabcock
21:28 / 23.09.02
No spam there, sir. I couldn't figure out which was the appropriate forum.
Glad that you're living it already. Must be nice to know it all!
 
 
grant
21:29 / 23.09.02
so who's the author? what's the book really like?
 
 
jaybabcock
21:33 / 23.09.02
from http://www.breakingopenthehead.com/about_the_author.htm

Daniel Pinchbeck has written features for The New York Times Magazine, Esquire, Wired, Harper's Bazaar, The Village Voice, Salon, and many other publications. He is one of the founders of Open City, an art and literary journal, and an independent book publisher. He was a 1999 - 2000 Fellow of the National Arts Journalism Program at Columbia University. He has also been a columnist for The Art Newspaper of London, and an editor at Connoisseur Magazine. Born in 1966, he grew up in New York City, where his father, Peter Pinchbeck, was an abstract painter. His mother, Joyce Johnson, was part of the Beat Generation in the 1950s. She is the author of several books, including Minor Characters, a memoir. He went to Wesleyan University in Middletown, Connecticut, then worked as a magazine editor and journalist,


In the late 1990s, after years of working in the media, Pinchbeck fell into the classic existential or spiritual crisis. Life seemed to have no point or transcendent meaning. He began to feel as if he was already dead, a ghost walking around the streets of Manhattan. At some point he recalled his fascination with psychedelic mushrooms and LSD in college. He experimented again, and his experiences inspired him to travel to Nepal and India, where he visited Tibetan Buddhist monasteries and the sacred Hindu festival Kumbh Mehla.


Back in New York, he began to study shamanism and the magical plants used in rituals. On assignment, he went to Gabon, in West Africa, and took iboga, a long-lasting psychedelic rootbark, in an initiation ceremony. He visited a shaman in Oaxaca, the son of the famous shamaness Maria Sabina. He attended a conference on "Visionary Entheobotany" in Palenque, Mexico and visited Burning Man. He went down to the Ecuadorean Amazon to visit the Secoya tribe and take ayahuasca, a visionary medicine.


Breaking Open the Head describes his own process of discovery, and a profound paradigm shift. He admits to still being surprised - even extremely astonished - at what he has found. Through direct experience, Pinchbeck learned that shamanism was a real phenomenon, that direct access to the spiritual world is available to anybody who is willing to explore for themselves and escape the prevailing orthodoxies, the "irrational rationality" of the current system. He supports the perspective of Christ in the Gnostic "Gospel of Thomas," who said: "Open the door for yourself, so you will know what is."
 
 
iconoplast
04:25 / 24.09.02
I have a hard time believing that drugs are a necessary element in a spiritual experience.
 
 
jaybabcock
10:03 / 24.09.02
iconoplast wrote: "I have a hard time believing that drugs are a necessary element in a spiritual experience."

????
Who said they were?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
11:29 / 24.09.02
Uh, presumably the book. I mean, given that it mentions how many differnt drugs were taken, and how they impacted on the process...
 
 
cusm
14:19 / 24.09.02
Unsuprising. Drugs are such powerful tools that it is easy to focus on them entirely. They make it so easy... The trick though, is to find the way to return to those states of mind discovered throgh use of drugs, via meditation, trance, or other methods. That is how drugs are referred to as teaching plants by shamans, as they teach you where you can go, so you can learn to go there on your own without them. Of course, it is so easy to just use the shortcut...
 
 
jaybabcock
16:30 / 24.09.02
The Return Of Rothkoid wrote: " Uh, presumably the book. I mean, given that it mentions how many differnt drugs were taken, and how they impacted on the process..."


Well, the book doesn't say that. Your inference. In fact, Pinchbeck says quite explicitly that drugtaking is not the only way. Etc.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
16:56 / 24.09.02
Profile of the Author as a young shmuck.
 
 
jaybabcock
16:57 / 24.09.02
Hi, sorry if I'm seeming snippy. If you guys have questions about the book or whatever, it's very easy to go ask Daniel himself, as he's moderating (and contributing to) the forums over there at the website. No need for me to be the middle man! Just the herald, I guess. ;-)
 
 
iconoplast
19:00 / 24.09.02
Let me rephrase, I think I misspoke myself.

The place drugs take you is, I believe, in the direction cardinally opposite spirituality. If it were possible to get to said place without drugs, I would pay not to. Someone whose spiritual beliefs were arrived at while under the influence of entheogens strikes me as about as authoritative a source as someone whose beliefs were arrived at while piss drunk and singing.

I mean... is there a selling point beyond "The author was smart. The author was depressed. The author took some fancy drugs with some interesting people. The author wrote a book?"
 
 
jaybabcock
19:12 / 24.09.02
re: " If it were possible to get to said place without drugs, I would pay not to. Someone whose spiritual beliefs were arrived at while under the influence of entheogens strikes me as about as authoritative a source as someone whose beliefs were arrived at while piss drunk and singing."


Okay. Of course you're entitled to that position! ;-) But it's one I won't assume, and it's one that most religions and spiritual traditions through history haven't assume.

Me, I'll take truth wherever it arrives from. Many an epiphany/breakthrough has been had through dreams, sleep deprivation, meditation, dancing, drumming, intense athletics and yes intoxication. What matters is how true/powerful the insight/experience -- spiritual or whatever -- is.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
20:57 / 24.09.02
Through out history drugs have been the herald of the mystic experiences

Timothy Leary
Aldous Huxley
Castanada

All went on to rediscover mystic realms they first saw on hallucinogens.
Only in the last century have these methods gotten a bad rap.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
20:59 / 24.09.02
strikes me as about as authoritative a source as someone whose beliefs were arrived at while piss drunk and singing.

...as was often the most creative state of the man who wrote the greatest epic of modernist literature, for example?

seems silly to discount any specific for experience for a general reason. the whole point of spiritual experience is arriving at general truth through the specificity of the moment... not the other way around.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:38 / 24.09.02
Your inference.

Yeah. Based on what you've posted.
 
 
jaybabcock
23:43 / 24.09.02
The Return Of Rothkoid wrote:

>> Your inference.

>Yeah. Based on what you've posted.


Sure. But where does it say 'necessary' in my post?

Sheesh!
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
00:10 / 25.09.02
Welcome to Barbelith, Mr. Babcock.
 
 
jaybabcock
00:36 / 25.09.02
Re XXX - C.T. ZeN-

At 03:10 25.09.2002:

> Welcome to Barbelith, Mr. Babcock.


Thanks. Whew. I know what you're saying. Now I remember why I avoided this place for so long. Oh well, what can you do except move on.
 
 
iconoplast
00:51 / 25.09.02
Um. So, yeah - babcock or anyone else who wants to explain -

(and I really do mean explain. I mean, I doubt you're right, but I still want to know more about why you're wrong, y'know?)

- what about drugs is spiritual? What can you learn from them, and (most important) what have you learned from them?

Can any drug be spiritual? Is it a property in their chemical makeups? What is the greatest epic of modernist literature?

I admit that my personal experience has given me a lot of cause to doubt that drugs are needed for, um... pretty much any spiritual endeavor. In fact, I think of them as being sort of toxic to spirituality. Do you find that you can return, without drugs, to the states you reached with them? Is it easier after you've done them? Was it possible before?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
01:45 / 25.09.02
Note usage of word "presumably", jay. I hardly think a round of barbe-bashing is in order for someone commenting on points you'd raised. Rolling of eyeballs ain't necessary, especially not about what comes across as thinly-veiled spam.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
02:51 / 25.09.02
What is the greatest epic of modernist literature? Ullysses by James Joyce, I'd assume.

what about drugs is spiritual? They seem to unlock parts of your brain/mind/consciousness that spiritual visions/experience. They allow us, to paraphrase Aldous Huxley to take our minds off of the mundane for a while and look at the signals we usually ignore.

The advantage of drugs is that all known effects on consciousness can be reached by other means so once you know a state through a drug you can find another route back there.
 
 
iconoplast
04:08 / 25.09.02
I guess... I don't know. I'm just skeptical of this. I keep losing friends to this idea and I'm (just now) trying to work out why I think there's a fallacy somewhere. I guess, like... Joyce didn't write Ulysses while he was drunk. Though maybe that explains the sequel. And if, as everyone says, drugs are just the shortcut, why doesn't anyone write about not using them?

Basically, I've gotten this really creepy feeling that, since the spirituality I found with/through/on drugs was so limpid in comparison to that which I've found without... I'm starting to think maybe I was just, you know. On drugs. And not, in fact, talking to god.
 
 
illmatic
07:32 / 25.09.02
Jay, thanks for the link, sorry you got slated a bit. Hope this doesn't degenerate into a serious of slag offs - let's all kiss and make up!

As for the drugs, are they/are they not spiritual thing:
Iconoplast, I'm glad that your posts are based on your own judgement and experience rather than a moral "drugs are evil" position. I disagree with you about drugs being toxic to sprituality. IMO, drugs are too wide ranging in their functions and effects to be that proscriptive about. However, this opens up the whole can of worms that is defining the "spiritual", maybe they are toxic to whatever you practice or have experienced.
I think drugs can be a tool as much as anything else. MDMA for instance, can make us open up emotionally and experience a lot of our negative crap without fear. (I recall reading something recently about the theraputic usage of MDMA now being tested now in the states - all to the good, IMO). Mushrooms can intensify our experience of nature in a wonderful way. I'd count these experiences as something "spiritual". What about you?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
13:31 / 25.09.02
it sounds like iconoplast is taking on the role of deciding when "talking to god" is objectively true and when it is objectively false. that sounds to me like the definition of "toxic to spirituality."

ps, to mr plast -- have you ever read anything about shamanism, anything by robert anton wilson, anything by grant fucking morrison? don't you find it a drag to be involved in this message board if everyone but you is deluded about who they're talking to when they're talking to god?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
13:39 / 25.09.02
but i'm sorry to derail this thread to much myself... iconoplast, if yr so concerned about drugs, maybe you should start another thread about the topic and see what the rest of the 'lithers think -- you seem oddly surprised that anyone here might be interested in shamanism.

back on track: has no one hear other than jay read this book? how about other books on the subject? i read The Cosmic Serpent a couple months ago (also thanks to jay) and it blew my mind -- the anthropologist argued that perhaps yage transmits information directly to humans through its DNA... that it is in fact a tool of whatever we might call "god" -- in effect, a communication device between humans and their cosmic origin.

well, it beats sunday mass, dunn'it?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
17:41 / 25.09.02
I read Breaking Open the Head yesterday on Jay's recommendation. I picked it up at Borders to give it a quick look and couldn't put it down.

It really is a fascinating read even if you don't necessarily agree with Pinchpeck's conclusions. It's a fascinating blend of Bloom, Moore, Morrison, Huxley and McKenna.

-Kevin
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:56 / 25.09.02
Jay Babcock: Have you at any time in your life written or arranged classical music? Just curious.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
20:01 / 25.09.02
Someone whose spiritual beliefs were arrived at while under the influence of entheogens strikes me as about as authoritative a source as someone whose beliefs were arrived at while piss drunk and singing.

I hope to god you don't seriously think of some spiritual ideas as "authoritative" and others not.

In logical debate you consider the argument, not the source. I would think it's the same for ideas.
 
 
grant
21:54 / 25.09.02
Weird. Looking up articles on ibogaine for a Conversation thread, I find this Salon article by Pinchbeck, on tripping in Gabon.

"The Bwiti believe that before the initiation, the neophyte is nothing," my guide, Daniel Lieberman, told me on my first morning in Gabon, as we took a cab through Libreville, the nation's capital. "Through the ceremony, you become something."
"What do you become?" I asked.
"You become a baanzi, one who knows the other world, because you have seen it with your own eyes."
"How do the Bwiti think of iboga?" I asked
"The Bwiti believe that iboga is a superconscious spiritual entity that guides mankind," he said.
I had found Lieberman, a botanist from South Africa, on the Internet, where he offered to bring Westerners to a shaman's tribal village, for a fee. "I have spent time in the rain forests of Africa east and west, Madagascar and the Amazon working with shamans, brujos, witch doctors, healers," Lieberman e-mailed me beforehand. "Iboga I feel to be the one plant that needs to be introduced to the world, and urgently."


and

At dusk, the ceremony began. The women took the analyst away and then the men came for me. The Bwiti had changed to full tribal dress -- animal skins, body painting, feathers -- and they played drums and rattles and horns. In single file, we marched from the village over a path through the jungle to the banks of a small stream. The younger men of the tribe had the sleek and muscular bodies of hunters, and the white patterns on their dark skin glowed like neon. Stumbling along with them, I felt like a tall blancmange.


So he's pretty aware of his status, I think, as outsider, as well as aware of the authentic use of entheogens in indigenous cultures.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
15:16 / 02.10.02
if anyone's interested, pinchbeck will be doing a reading / discussion of his book in NYC at the Astor Place Barnes+Nobles tomorrow, Thursday the 3rd, at 7:30

I think one of the aspects of this books that's interesting is that it is mainstream. No one has ever heard of Narby, for example, who was taken seriously neither in academia nor in the new age section. McKenna is totally cult. Pinchbeck's book, on the other hand, is getting reviewed all over the mainstream press, in places like Entertainment magazine, and is prominently displayed in New Release sections at bookstores. this is a good thing, and something worth supporting.
 
 
JohnnyDark
22:40 / 19.10.04
Nice link to the NY Observer article!

I am just finishing the book and I enjoyed it - there are a lot more things I could say when I've digested it but I would recommend a look at the above article to anyone reading the book...

Its, er.. interesting to know a little more about the author and not entirely surprising to hear that he is a bit of a well-heeled urbanite - I'm thinking Alain de Botton with a Chas habit, if that's conceivable.

Despite having a superficial interest in McKenna's stuff a few years ago, I never really got with it - but this book has totally switched my lights on about plant intelligence and reminded me of mycophile stuff I haven't thought about since Jay Stevens stormed my head. He builds nicely from intermittent experiments to exploring shamanistic beliefs with a sense of coalescing evidence and snowballing synchronicities. Besides, for some reason I just love reading DMT trip reports... the DPT sounds like a stiff hit - anyone tried?

Mind you, if wealthy, privileged Village ex-brats like him get singled out for The Call to become shamen by the lush jungles of our Mother Planet, I'll be fucking annoyed...

Isn't Madonna into it yet? Kabbalah's so.. I dunno.. 2004, dontcha think?
 
 
Sekhmet
12:54 / 20.10.04
Hmm. Interesting that this thread has bobbed to the surface again, since I'm in the middle of reading this book right now. I literally just stuck a bookmark in it and then opened Barbelith...

Never mind, I'm not even surprised by this kind of thing anymore.

I know this discussion is ages old, but - iconoplast, if you still have questions about the authenticity or significance of entheogens in spirituality, you might want to check this book out, and maybe use it as a guide for some other reading and anthropological research. Pinchbeck cites a large body of literature on shamanic culture and the spiritual use of plant drugs.

Psychoactive plants and other intoxicating substances have been used spiritually throughout human history. It strikes me as more than a little arrogant to assert that spiritual knowledge gained "under the influence of evil bad icky drugs" is any less authentic than something you learn after staring at your navel for years. Sure, it's a shortcut of sorts, but to get anything useful out of it is till a bit tricky. I know countless people who trip balls every weekend and are still clueless fuckups; I also know a few who have had deeply revelatory and sometimes life-changing experiences. If you're open to them, entheogens can show you all kinds of things.

One of the problems Pinchbeck discusses is that drug use in the modern Western world is entirely divorced from any authentic shamanic heritage. We have no ritual, no belief system that incorporates the experience imparted by psychotropes. In a shamanic culture, the initiate would have some sort of guiding purpose and a ritual built specifically to help ensure that his journey is significant. For those of us raised in a modern, rationalist society, which approaches the use of drugs as not only primitive but evil, something to be scorned, ridiculed and suppressed - is it any wonder that many of us don't see the point, or deny the possibilities? Is it any wonder that drugs taken recreationally for a kick don't impart gnosis to every shroomhead and smoker?

The main point I disagree with Pinchbeck about - and I'm only halfway through the book as I write - is that he seems to be so enthusiastic about the potential of entheogens for spiritual awakening and for mitigating the modern "empty self" syndrome, that he essentially recommends their use to everyone. I'm not so certain that everyone needs, or is even capable of handling, that kind of experience.

However, it's a thoughtful and interesting read. Pinchbeck alternates between chronicling his own experiences, and tracing the history of entheogen use and the suppression thereof. His prose style is also very palatable, and less likely to strike the average reader as weirdly as, say, Terence McKenna's.
 
  

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