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Underground > Radio & Music >

Anyone here listen to Whitehouse?

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02:24 / 20.09.02

I know no one who likes this band (not surprising as no CD stores in my area stockes their CDs: I've had to order all of them over the internet).

While I disagree with some of their lyrics (mostly in the older albums they did) I still think they're one of the best bands working in the extreme electronic genre today. Their last album, "Cruise", was brilliant (much better then earlier albums like "New Britian").

13:42 / 20.09.02

I've never actually heard Whitehouse, but Kim Gordon recently described them as "radical noise .. one of the best Britsh bands ever" and I hear they do stuff along similar lines to Big Black and Swans, so, er, count me interested.

20:38 / 20.09.02

Kim Gordon must be on crack.... or talking about someone else.... Whitehouse sound nothing like Big Black or the Swans. there are no guitars for a start. maybe the confusion came because Steve Albini has recorded a lot of Whitehouse's material (who of course was in Big Black). i myself fucking love Whitehouse. they are what music should be about. haven't got round to buying any albums (yet) but i've downloaded some stuff off the net. i did see Dedicated to Peter Kurtin on LP but it was £25. plus there seemed to be 4 different versions. ?
but basically i think they're fucking amaizing. as 4 the lyrics i haven't read any, but have read interviews where they defend their intent. and i don't think any of them are sexists. just extreme artists.

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02:58 / 21.09.02

well, collecting Whitehouse CDs can be an expensive thing... I ordered all mine off the Susan Lawly website at about $20 a piece (took about a year to get all 13 or so). Two of their eighties albums, "Psychopathia Sexualis" & "Right To Kill" were never officialy made into CDs, but bootlegs were made (which is how I got a CDR copy of both).

Anyway, the members of Sonic Youth are supposedly big Whitehouse fans.

I split them into two eras: 1980-1985 and 1990 to present day. From the first era I really recommend "Birthdeath Experiance", "Dedicated to Peter Kurten" & "Great White Death". Truth be told, a lot of the early stuff is hard to listen to, mostly just song after song of feedback. The albums from the second era are better produced and easier to listen to (see "Twice is not enough", "Cruise", "Mummy & Daddy"). All the Cds I just mentioned are good starting points (but brace yourself, their sound is EXTREME: even the back of their CDs have warnings, saying that they should be "approached with caution").

My only problem with them is their unoriginality in the early eighties (they were just ripping off Throbbing Gristle's love of serial killer/fascist imagery at one point). And some of their early songs were very misogynistic and filled with sexual violence (with track titles like "prosexist" and "rapeday" etc.) their lyrics aren't as extreme any more though (in the older days they would just steal passages from De Sade sometimes).

And yes, the only instruments they use are keyboards.

07:21 / 21.09.02

"My only problem with them is their unoriginality in the early eighties (they were just ripping off Throbbing Gristle's love of serial killer/fascist imagery at one point). And some of their early songs were very misogynistic and filled with sexual violence (with track titles like "prosexist" and "rapeday" etc.)"

Quite. There were an awful lot of bands around in the 80s who 'flirted with facism', and while some made a point most were just wanky little boys who wanted to feel good. Hello Sixth Comm! Hello Death In June! Hello Sol Invictus!

Sypha - I'm not sure how you can be aware of these things and still give these people your hard earned cash. Does it not matter?

Varis - I suggest you Google 'whitehouse+lyrics'. And then see if you still 'fucking love them'.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

07:45 / 21.09.02

I've always been of the opinion that Whitehouse would be much better without the vocals. (Hence my love of Nic Endo's "White Heat" album, which sounds, well, like Whitehouse without the vocals).

It's not so much that they're offensive (which they undoubtedly are), but on an aesthetic level they just sound... well... silly. I find their links with Peter Sotos a bit off-putting too.

The music's excellent, though- but as sfd says, I don't really fancy giving 'em any of my cash. (Okay, so liking Boyd Rice probably makes me a bit of a hypocrite here, but I try not to buy his stuff new, or get review promos where I can.)

A friend of mine once described Whitehouse as being "a racket with a bloke shouting 'I'm gonna rip your knickers off' over the top". Which I found it hard to disagree with.

14:21 / 21.09.02

"your number's come up, honey
and so has my cock
the chips are down
and so are your wet panties
you came up trumps babe
when i came up your ass
if you wanna see my hand
you gotta suck my cock
don't talk to me about lady luck
when, lady, i want more than a fuck
a black cat crossed your path today
and your pussy's crossed mine
get down on your knees and pray
'cos, baby, this is gonna be your lucky day
hey! you've hit the winning trail!
and what's for sure
my cock can't fail
thank your lucky stars
thank your lucky stars
thank your lucky stars
believe me babe
i ain't bluffing
thank your lucky stars"

I've checked out some of their other lyrics. All pretty much in the same vein ("get on your knees, suck my cock" etc etc). Not entirely sure what the point of the band is, but I don't feel inclined to find out more, unless some of the fans here can enlighten me?

Industrial music - my brother saw Throbbing Gristle and described them thus: "boom boom RRRAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!, I don't know if this means he liked them or not.

I admit to being pretty grumpy when this genre comes up - it's hard not to be after one of Sixth Comm. sprayed CS gas at me 'for a joke' and two of them would refuse to pay their fare on the bus if the conductor was Asian. One has now joined Combat 18, his spiritual home, no doubt. Personal issues aside, I realise I'm rather hijacking this thread, but I'm certainly up for discussing the whole facism in music thing. Whitehouse were loved or hated for being 'facists'.

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14:36 / 21.09.02

you make some good points, Chairman and shortfatdyke. Truth be told, I'm probably not the typical Whitehouse member, being homosexual, feminist, (most of my friends are lesbians and feminists too) etc. So am I a hypocrite giving these people my money? (this is coming from a guy whose read Valerie Solanis' SCUM Manifesto. btw).

I don't think so. First, it's just music, really. Just because you like a certain band doesn't mean you necessarily agree with their viewpoint (for example, my brother is a HUGE Eminem fan but he doesn't have a homophobic bone in his body).

Second of all, I like the music. I like the extreme electronic sound (which is why I like bands like Throbbing Gristle and Merzbow). I'm a musician myself and most of my music falls into the noise/electronic category (not that that's all I listen to... I love Depeche Mode, Eurythmics, and lots of other synth-pop... hell, I'm even a big Lil' Kim fan).

As for the lyrics, as I said most of the worst lyrics they had were in the earlier albums. The lyrics they do aren't as bad now. In fact Whitehouse has a fairly large female audience now. I think a lot of the early songs were more sadist in nature then truly misogynistic. Even William Bennett has said that he's not the misogynist people has said he is. Would a true misogynist release "Extreme Music From Women"? Or work with female artists? Or admit to liking Yoko Ono?

As for Sotos, I'll admit he repels me... but I think contrast is a good thing. As a chaos magician I believe it's good to explore things on both side. Like Phil Hine says, read the Marquis De Sade then Andrea Dworkin. So I'll listen to Whitehouse, then put on Tribe 8 or Lydia Lunch.

And I find some of their songs funny, only because they are so over the top in nature. How can you take lyrics like "I'm Coming Up Your Ass" seriously anyway?

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14:45 / 21.09.02

Here's some of the lyrics from the song "Cruise" from their latest album of the same title (the lyrics went on for too long to include the whole thing):

"There are not enough details
There are no fucking details
Just Facts
Just the loud noted abscence
Some titillating history
Some family snaps
No bruises
No cuts nor plaster casts
No black eyes
No tears nor hospital white lenin fetish gear
Where's the reflection?
It's not there
Not over all of those sensible clothes
Not on those puckered gumps
You'll have to make it up
Fantasive the details
Force the obvious
I've had to listen to these sick fuck invalids for what seems
like my entire life and worse, I've wanted to buy
What precious little they had to sell
Right now I'm seriously fucking sick of it
Seriously fucking tired of their filthy lies and half-brained
sales stumbles and then their complete condencension
I'm bored with their jobs and I'm sick of pitched
second-hand experiance
I think there are better places to sink to and I'm searching
For greater acknowledgement and display
Especially for grief
Pain is sucked hard through grief and I'll pay to see it spot-lit
It's better when it's positioned and sold
I'll even believe in what they call human"

So as you see, not all their lyrics involve orders to suck cock.

(though they do use the line "I'm comin' up your ass" in a lot of songs: must be anal-fixated).

08:45 / 22.09.02

are artist not allowed to explore taboo subjects? can they not point out the sadism/sexism so inherant in our culture? does everything HAVE to be nice?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:10 / 22.09.02

I have a hideous admission to make- I used to be a big fan of Death In June and Sixth Comm. Hey, I was a kid, I was a goth, and I didn't realise at the time they were actually Nazis. (Of course, with Death In June these days it's blatantly fucking obvious). I still listen to Sol Invictus, but with a certain sense of shame.

Having said that, if I'd never listened to DIJ I'd never have discovered Current 93, who are a) a fuck sight better and b) manifestly NOT Nazis (Hitler as Kalki- dedicated to "My father who fought Hitler") even though back in the day Tibet and Douglas P were good (and band) mates.

To get slightly back on-topic, I've just remembered that Tibet also collaborated with Whitehouse on one track... oops. But he was doing a lot of drugs back then, and collaborating with just about anyone in that area. Still makes me feel a bit funny though.

I don't actually think Whitehouse are Nazis (or indeed misogynists, though I'm not so sure about that one), any more than Throbbing Gristle were- it's just that it's a deeply unwise thing to fuck with that kind of shit at the moment. Yeah, yeah, artistic license, freedom of speech, all that stuff, but, as the man said, "do not call up that which ye cannot put down".

It is a shame, really, because, as I said earlier, if they were instrumentals they's be a fuck of a lot better. Aside from anything else, the lyrics actually detract from the extreme nature of the music by sounding like they're by a cross, sexually-frustrated teenager.

12:35 / 22.09.02

Well, it comes back to where we usually end up on things like this - how objectionable does an artist have to be before you decide not to listen/read/watch/look at their art? It can be a difficult decision and sometimes contradictory to a person's politics, but I think that a person should be aware of what they're 'supporting', directly or indirectly.

As for the 'taboo subject' thing - I've come across this arguement many times, and I think artists have every right to explore taboo themes, but my personal experience of much of the industrial music types was that they were expressing their personal likes and political beliefs (see my earlier post) and/or wanking over pictures of dead Jews.

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14:53 / 22.09.02

I dunno, maybe I'm just drawn to bands that dabble in taboo subject matter (something I wish more musicians did rather then "play it safe", as it were).

Regarding the nazi bit, I think it is obvious that TG were not nazi's. In fact, Throbbing Gristle was quite a funny, witty band, if you got the joke. And Whitehouse only did one album that dealed with nazism (which was "New Britian", back in '82). However, the Come Organization did release a lot of SS tapes and the "triumph of the will" soundtrack. But that was just probably the whole tabboo thing again.

And many of Whitehouse's songs would suck without lyrics ("Cruise" being a good example). In some cases the abrasive vocals add to the song's extreme element.

I've listened to lots of music and I've never been ashamed of anything I've listened to. I've you're ashamed listening to a certain group better you just not listen to it at all.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:03 / 22.09.02

Yeah, but there's a difference between "dabbling in" taboo material, and "dealing with" taboo material.

If it's just to piss people off, for the sake of being "extreme"... then go on, be daring, say "bum" to a vicar.

I think, as you kind of said, Sypha, if I read you right, that TG "dealt with" taboo subject matter. Personally, I think Whitehouse just fuck around with it. Whereas DIJ et al "dabbled with" it... and let's look where they ended up...

13:20 / 24.09.02

As a nice reversal of this whole Whitehouse debate, I've been listening to Napalm Death's 'From Enslavement to Obliteration' album (shut up, it's great!) lately, and I checked out the lyrics sheet expecting it to be full of death camps and corpse fucking and so on, and, um, I was pleasantly suprised to find the words largely consist of fairly right-on diatribes against racism, sexism, fascism etc.

The joke of course being that, listening to the record, it's impossible to discern anything except "UUURRGGHH! FUUCCKK! URRRGGGHHH!", so presumably their admirable political agenda will forever remain in the dark. Which is .. weird..

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14:58 / 24.09.02

Well, perhaps "dabble" was poor word choice on my part. When Whitehouse was first launched in 1980 it's mission statement was something along the lines of how they planned to explore some of the most tabboo subject matter and see how far they could take it. They said these were the albums De Sade would have made had he had the chance to make music. They wanted to create some of the most vile, unlistenable albums ever made.

Obviously, they met most of their goals.

Anyway, now their stuff is more philosophical then shocking (though a recent album did deal with child abuse, which is pretty taboo, I would think). Maybe they're calming down now that they're older (Whitehouse's most offensive stuff was generally made when most of the band members were in their early twenties).

Anyway, Whitehouse were not Nazis. In fact their label has reduced noise music from African and Japanese artists, and Whitehouse has a large Japanese fan base. The band even said that, had they existed in Nazi germany, they probably would of been the first ones killed by Hitler. Odd to see how they've become "underground media darlings", endorsed by the likes of Sonic Youth, Richard James from Aphex Twin, Mira Calix... A British music magazine recently picked their latest single as "Single of the Year". Guess some bands do improve with age.

All I'm saying is, until you've heard an album (or took the time to actually research the band) don't knock it (I wonder how people would respond to a female noise band with extreme anti-male lyrics... surely such a group must exist... if so I must find it!)

Can't comment on DIJ but Current 93 is a great band, though the only album of their's I own is the beautifully creepy "Dogs Blood Rising". Coincidentaly, the track that Tibet collaborated with Whitehouse on was "Thank Your Lucky Stars", the lyrics of which shortfatdyke posted. Go figure...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

15:10 / 24.09.02

I thought it was "Thank You Lucky Stars", but wasn't sure...

No, all I'm saying is that they (Whitehouse) don't seem to be giving the shit they're fucking with much more than anything beyond an "extreme=pisses people off" thing. I think if they had been doing the "extreme=makes people think" thing it would be different.

No, I don't think they're Nazis. I just think they're silly. And as regards the changed nature of the recent lyrics... yeah, fair enough. But I still think the music would work better without vocals.

20:49 / 24.09.02

for the same kind of 'music' but without lyrics check out Merzbow.

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02:04 / 25.09.02

Yeah, Merzbow's pretty good. I really want "Pulse Demon" and the music for Bondage performance series, but those seem to be out of print at the moment.

I think Whitehouse's music gets people to think. Hell, we've been arguing about it for days now.

02:42 / 25.09.02

Merzbow also wins the award for coolest CD packaging when he released a limited edition copy Noiseembryo sealed in the CD player of a Mercedes Benz.

Look down the page for Laughing Embryo.

12:49 / 25.09.02

I'm still frightened of Merzbow. Can't speak for his recorded material, but his live performance made Nic Endo sound like Fatboy Slim in it's utterly inhuman, uncompromising extremity.. it was like, just, absolutely no connection with any human emotion or 'musical' notions at all .. just crushing sheets of pure death .. some lyrics about rape and child abuse and stuff would probably have lightened it up a bit..

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:30 / 25.09.02

Merzbow does indeed rock... and yeah, Sypha, we have been arguing about this for days now. Which is a good thing, I agree.

The only thing is, we haven't been arguing about the content, but the form... I'll have to check out the recent stuff (though second-hand) because... yeah, I LIKE what they're trying to do in terms of extremity,... I just think they are (or were... must plead ignorance for their last few years) horribly naive and/or stupid to tackle it in such a way. Oh yeah, and silly.

There are better ways of dealing with these subjects than just screaming about them in a silly voice. C'mon, when Bennett says "YOU GOTTA SUCK MY COCK!" or "IT'S ALL RIGHT TO KILL- IT'S OUR NATURE!" you're not thinking "hmmm... I'm questioning the nature of taste here"... you're thinking "what a silly voice he's putting on here." If indeed there is an object, I think that defeats it.

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02:05 / 27.09.02

Well, at least I found out here how many people actually LIKED Whitehouse.

Of course, just because I like the band doesn't mean I worship the ground they walk on, as I said earlier they released a lot of weak albums in the 80's and at times their lyrical choices are... unfortunate (coincidentaly their most "misogynist" songs were co-written by Kevin Tompkins, of Sutcliffe Jugend fame, who is a confirmed misoygnist). And I despise Peter Sotos with a vengeance. And even I'll admit they come off as silly often... I don't think they meant to in the old days (though they did... who else dedicates songs to Chuck Traynor?) but now I think the humor is more deliberate now. If you're planning on checking out any of the newer ones check out "Cruise" or the more subtle, near ambient "Twice is not Enough" (which actually came out in '91).

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02:08 / 27.09.02

and I'll admit, when Bennett screams now he sounds kinda like an old woman. Hilarious

19:20 / 28.09.02

in terms of noise this band are real inivators, but if the vocals are trying to imitate the noise of the machines they probably succeed on being as irratating. eeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeee!

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:57 / 01.08.04

After re-reading England's Hidden Reverse I've decided to give Whitehouse another go, and thanks to the joys of Soulseek I've now got myself Bird Seed and Psychopathia Sexualis.

My attitude towards them's mellowed somewhat- I still think (on PS, anyway), Bennett's vocals are prety stupid. But yeah, you're right, Sypha, Bird Seed does seem to have had a bit more thought put into its content (not got all the way through the "collage" track yet, so I'm only really in a position to talk about the more music-oriented pieces), and ironically Bennett actually DOES sound more menacing now he's not just dealing with obvious offensiveness button-pushers. I'll definitely check out some of their other recent stuff, and I now have the urge to track down a copy of "The 150 Murderous Passions" with Nurse With Wound, because I think I may like it more now than I did way back when.