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A (hell of a lotta) questions about "The Invisibles" that are nagging on me...

 
  

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02:44 / 19.09.02
Hi, I'm pretty new here... anyway, I discovered "The Invisibles" last February and I've read all the issues since (Had to order the final 12 off e-bay). Anyway, I understand most of it but there are still a lot of little questions I have about the series that I just can't answer (yeah, I know it's supposed to be that way, you're supposed to draw your own conclusions). Still, you seem like smart people and I'd love to hear your opinions on some of these... (most of them are from Vol. 2 & 3... I found Vol. 1 to be easier to understand).

What does the line "Now it's a rescue mission" mean? Rescuing what?

What is King Mob's headress supposed to be (or represent)? It's bizarre looking...

Jack gets the tip of one of his finger cut off by Orlando, yet a few issues later the tip's back, fully healed?

What is the point of the Invisibles heading back to Dulce in Black Science 2? They don't even get the magic mirror back...

When King Mob gets a glimpse of himself in the future when he is invaded by magic mirror at Dulce, who is that odd-looking person standing behind him?

How did Oscar know the Archons would be summoned at mid '99? And why did he call the king archon Abaddon when the king's real name is Rex Mundi (or Sabaoth)?

When Col. Friday brings Quimper to the Outer Church, what is that weird statue with the lower fish body and furry arms supposed to be? Or that tall lady in bridal gear being attended to by bug children?

When Queen Mab went into a trance and attracted the shining ones, what did she mean by "The Howling Diamond"?

Who wrote Edith the note saying "It's time"? Time for what I wonder?

When Miles talks to Col. Friday in a dream, what does he mean about the bogey-lady or Myra?

THE BLIND CHESSMAN

Why does he quote the line "I am not the god of your fathers" (like Jesus said to Dane)?

When he tells Col. Friday "Do you know what I am?" he turns into a bunch of squares. wtf?

MASON LANG

Mason says he had his alien encounter when he was nine, at July 1981. But when Robin meets him in 2008 he's 45 years old. If he had the alien encounter in '81, shouldn't he be about 36?

Mason tells King Mob Robin was abused by her father. Later King Mob says this was just a lie. What?

Mason tells KM that Robin told him he'd control the military complex in 2012. Yet in the final issue we hear of Mason's death. What happened to him?

Why'd Mason do so little in Volume 3? Volume 2 made him seem like an important character pulling the strings on both sides, but in Vol. 3 he barely even appears.

QUIMPER

Quimper tells the Chessman "You were there. Violation". He was where?

The chessman tells Dane that Quimper said "Once my name was John". I thought Quimper was a spirit? And John A'Dreams is in Volume 3 as a human. What was Quimper talking about? And what is the signifigance in Robin wanting to name her baby Quimper?

HAND OF GLORY

Is the Hand of Glory Queen Mab's hand? Miles does cut it off...

What is the formula of Voltigeurs?

The hand vanished in 1959. Vanished where though? and who is this cult? Was Miles a member of it?

VOLUME 3 QUESTIONS

What is Rossiter going on about when he says "Central America! Exterminate!"

Why does Tarquin look so much like Rossiter? And why is he so hesitant to kill now when he's killed in the past (kate)?

Helga says Miles killed two women. One was Mab... Who was the other?

Pg. 13 of issue nine... the upper left panel... two hands opening up a lid? What's the point of that panel?

How is Tom O'Bedlam's body still in the tunnel? Shouldn't it have decomposed by now?

Why was the Yellow Scarves contacting Miles?

What does Flint mean when he says "John A'Dreams is a complex structure"?

THE INVISIBLE KINGDOM

Why does Paddy bring the hand of glory to Westminster Abbey?

What does Flint mean when he talks about himself being a fiction suit for experiencing "The Invisibles"?

Why on earth does Miles think the Moonchild's always been one of the Invisibles?

After Miles is dosed with key 23, where are all those words coming from?

Why does Miles think Helga is the queen Archon when he wasn't decieved by her earlier? And why does he kill himself? Was he working for the Invisibles the whole time? Or has he just snapped by this point?

Shouldn't the surviving Invisibles wonder what became of King Mob after he got shot?

What did Helga mean when she told Miles corpse that he would "Rise again"?

Why does Dane want to start a new cell if "The war is over"?

What does the harlequin mean when it says "Don't think of Midwives"?

What is the "Diamond Baphomet" Helga mentioned?

Just how does Dane eat the Rex Mundi?

What does John A'Dreams mean by "Flint was just a suit"?

What happens to John anyway? He just vanishes...

In the scene where John talks to Fanny he seems enlightened... yet the issue before he seems like an evil enemy agent... was it all just an act to get Miles to summon Sabaoth into Dane's body? Did John A'Dreams know that the Invisibles would win in the end, and he was just trying to speed up their victory?

FINAL ISSUE

How come when Robin returns in the future she's not in her time suit?

How does the King of all tears appear? Shouldn't the archons be gone seeing that Rex Mundi was destroyed by Dane years ago?

Why is KM planning on releasing the Invisibles game? The world ends the next day..What does Edith mean when she mentions "The Hand of Glory being used to free the time suit" & "Freddy paniced and collapsed time down to a point"?

What does Morrison mean when he mentions "The archons as BPM 3 Grof Condensations"?

We see satellites hovering near Barbelaith back in '99 in issue #7... yet they wait till 2012 to retrieve it...

and finally...

Why are the Invisibles so concerned with saving humanity in 1999 when humans (in human form at least) will only be around for another 12 years or so (before they evolutionize). Sure, if the Conspiracy had won, that would have sucked, but it wouldn't of stopped the supercontext from emerging Dec. 22, 2012...

* * * *

Phew! I realise those are a lot of questions but if you could give me any insight I'd love to hear it (even though I know some of these points have probably been debated in the past... Hey, I only discovered it months ago, give me a break).
 
 
The Tower Always Falls
03:15 / 19.09.02
Pleasure having you Sypha... I'm somewhat new technically myself, but what the hell...

Don't be offended if I only answer the questions I find interesting, and some of those parts I don't even quite remember... anyway..

The Blind Chessman is Satan, or the Gnostic Christ. Call him the First Invisible. The first angel to rise up against the tyranny of God's super order and the like. My opinion on the square thing is a fracturing of time as he appears in another form. I always considered it like Flatland. A shadow of a four-dimensional being appears in three dimensions, but a slice of a 4-d beings appears segmented across space and time... This is why I'm convinced Jesus was a 5-d persona so to speak... And yes, Satan was present at Quimper's and Fannie's rape. He's a good alien/antibody corrupted in a very odd sex ritual.

John-a-Dreams is Quimper and Jack Flint. When John-a-Dreams tried on the Lovecraftian time suit he was catapulted into the supercontext, where he fragmented himself and put himself back into the game, as it were. Quimper and Jack are fiction suits, just John playing across time and space. (Quimper is also the comic book metaphor for a girlfriend of Grant's abortion).

Also... The Invisibles are the bad guys. The whole good/evil dichotomy is just a front. There are no sides.

On that obtuse note, I leave to nourish my food poisoning...
 
 
moriarty
04:36 / 19.09.02
When my brother, Potus and I went to the big NY meet earlier this year, we drove all over Brooklyn trying to find our hotel. Finally giveing up, Potus asked a police officer where we might find our hotel. He pointed at the building right behind us.

Has that ever happened to you?
 
 
The Natural Way
07:44 / 19.09.02
Mate, you can't expect people to answer all those questions. All I can say is: reread it and READ AROUND IT (Robert Anton Wilson, Phillip K Dick, Aleister Crowley, DeBord, Phil Hine, Stanislav Groff, Susan Blackmore, a couple of gnostic texts, some books on buddhism...etc), because the only way yr really gonna grok the thing - or anything for that matter - is by doing the work yrself.

But don't worry about niggling, little plot details like Jack's finger. There's no clever, clever solution to that one.

A couple of pointers: time does not run in a straight line in the invissyverse and the characters themselves exist in a kind of "meta" state: as human beings, 5th dimensional midwives, Invissygame simulations and components in a vast spell designed to contact and draw down the Horic energies of the new aeon... Sometimes their actions might not seem to make sense, but that's just what the spell demands at that time. A good bet is to follow some of the currents you've mentioned and just see where they lead. Take the video game metaphor, fr example, and read the comic with that in mind...just see where it goes: whose is the player? what does it mean for the game to crash? What does it mean for the player to be embedded in the game? How does that bear on the idea of a rescue mission? As I said, Just follow the ideas and it'll come - it's much more fun than me "explaining" everything to you, 'cause at the moment that's what it looks like yr asking people to do.
 
 
Sax
08:35 / 19.09.02
Fucking hell, Sypha.

I always wonder whether it would have been a better thing to have read the Invisibles all in one go, like you've done, or to do as I (and many others here) did and read each episode as they were released, dissecting, debating and discussing to death on Barbelith each month. The mistake I made at the beginning was trying to read the Invisibles like a linear story with the normal devices of plot and characterisation. It ain't that sort of animal.

Listen to Runce. Read between the Invisibles. It makes more sense when taken as a concept, an idea, rather than a story. It's a jumping off point for all those things Runce mentioned, and more.

Like Barbelith, really.

Oh, and the world as we know it might end in 2012, but it doesn't blow up or anything.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
12:54 / 19.09.02
I'm going to try and be literal, here.

"What does the line "Now it's a rescue mission" mean? Rescuing what?"

Rescuing everyone, taking them into the supercontext.

"Jack gets the tip of one of his finger cut off by Orlando, yet a few issues later the tip's back, fully healed?"

Jack, like Wolverine, has incredible healing powers, and adamantium bones.

"What is the point of the Invisibles heading back to Dulce in Black Science 2? They don't even get the magic mirror back..."

It reflects the start of the volume, and bookends the American adventure.

"Who wrote Edith the note saying "It's time"? Time for what I wonder?"

Time for her death. It's written by Tom.

"When Miles talks to Col. Friday in a dream, what does he mean about the bogey-lady or Myra?"

Myra Hindley, who at the time the comics were being published monthly, was back in the news because of a portrait of her in the Sensation exhibition. If you don't know who she is, Google her name.

"Why does he quote the line "I am not the god of your fathers" (like Jesus said to Dane)?"

Perhaps it's a clue.

"Mason says he had his alien encounter when he was nine, at July 1981. But when Robin meets him in 2008 he's 45 years old. If he had the alien encounter in '81, shouldn't he be about 36?"

Grant can't count.

"Mason tells KM that Robin told him he'd control the military complex in 2012. Yet in the final issue we hear of Mason's death. What happened to him?"

We don't know. Maybe he faked his death. Maybe he was wrong.

"Why'd Mason do so little in Volume 3? Volume 2 made him seem like an important character pulling the strings on both sides, but in Vol. 3 he barely even appears."

Perhaps you believed the myth of the powerful American rich man too much. Perhaps he didn't have any reason to be in Volume 3 that much.

"Quimper tells the Chessman "You were there. Violation". He was where?"

At the party where Fanny got raped; Quimper was the alien hanging on the wall, as far as I can remember. Or maybe he means the Outer Church, where... no, never mind.

"The chessman tells Dane that Quimper said "Once my name was John". I thought Quimper was a spirit? And John A'Dreams is in Volume 3 as a human. What was Quimper talking about? And what is the signifigance in Robin wanting to name her baby Quimper?"

Robin's baby is misdirection and a personal reference for Grant. Quimper was John; note the outfit both of them wore.

"Is the Hand of Glory Queen Mab's hand? Miles does cut it off..."

Perhaps.

"The hand vanished in 1959. Vanished where though? and who is this cult? Was Miles a member of it?"

Maybe this isn't important.

"How is Tom O'Bedlam's body still in the tunnel? Shouldn't it have decomposed by now?"

Time does funny things around Tom.

"What does Flint mean when he says "John A'Dreams is a complex structure"?"

Flint was Quimper was John. The "complex structure" refers to the fictionsuit nature of all three, which Flint was becoming aware of.

"What does Flint mean when he talks about himself being a fiction suit for experiencing "The Invisibles"?"

That's one of the core ideas in the series.

"Why on earth does Miles think the Moonchild's always been one of the Invisibles?"

Because he's a paranoid mess by this point.

"Why does Miles think Helga is the queen Archon when he wasn't decieved by her earlier? And why does he kill himself? Was he working for the Invisibles the whole time? Or has he just snapped by this point?"

The latter.

"Why does Dane want to start a new cell if "The war is over"?"

Because there's still work to be done.

"What does the harlequin mean when it says "Don't think of Midwives"?"

The universe is being born into the supercontext.

"Just how does Dane eat the Rex Mundi?"

Magic.

"What does John A'Dreams mean by "Flint was just a suit"?"

Fiction suit.

"How come when Robin returns in the future she's not in her time suit?"

She left the suit in the supercontext.

"Why are the Invisibles so concerned with saving humanity in 1999 when humans (in human form at least) will only be around for another 12 years or so (before they evolutionize). Sure, if the Conspiracy had won, that would have sucked, but it wouldn't of stopped the supercontext from emerging Dec. 22, 2012..."

How do you know?
 
 
The Natural Way
13:24 / 19.09.02
Like yr responses, Smile, but Robin's baby isn't "misdirection" - remember what, in the end, is being born...... Robin: the "good mother" giving birth to the star child/new aeon within the supercontext...the placenta collapses... she finds her shadow in Onorthocrasi, the "bad mother", barren and hard - the miscarrier, mother of abortions: Quimper, Edie in Harrods, Sir Miles....

But, of course, the two are one.... "she is me...."

At this point the "characters" become squirming, transforming hypersigils and the "story" becomes...something else....something to do with magickal symmetry: the components have to be in the right place for the spell to function correctly, but, weirdly, at this stage there's no effort, nothings contrived...the pieces simply fall like that. We realise we're looking at a map - a cross-section of Horus and "his" birth process.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:26 / 19.09.02
Oh, and the Robin thing:

"Timesuits are what we become in all now"

Think about that.........
 
 
Graeme McMillan
14:57 / 19.09.02
"Like yr responses, Smile, but Robin's baby isn't "misdirection""

Sorry, I meant it was misdirection in so far as Quimper is concerned... The Robin baby thing is really only there because of what Quimper, and Robin, are to Grant, as opposed to actually fitting in with the plot, such as it is.

Of course, a lot of these questions and answers are moot, because the important thing about The Invisibles isn't the plot, but the ideas and emotions and everything BEHIND the story. Like Barbelith (the concept in the comic, not this place), it speaks in emotional aggregates.
 
 
--
16:21 / 19.09.02
Heh, thanks for answering some of my questions. Truth be told, I just wanted some opinions on what you thought about some of the questions I asked.

Regarding some of the writers mentioned... I've never read Robert Anton Wilson. I have read Philp K. Dick's "Valis", which cleared up some things. Susan Blackmore's "Meme Machine" gave me some insight regarding the final issue, and I have read some Crowley (and Phil Hine's two "chaos" books). Most of the magic stuff in "The Invisibles" I get as I'm into magic anyway, it's some of the more metaphysical stuff that throws me off, as it were, like all the time stuff and fiction suits (I've read a lot of William S. Burroughs too and I know he's one of Grant's inspirations).

I know who Myra Hindley is too. Throbbing Gristle wrote a song about her and Ian Brady called "Very Friendly" back in '77.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:06 / 19.09.02
So did Blouse, 'Me Oh Myra' IIRC. Best number one we never had...
 
 
paw
22:55 / 19.09.02
sypha you really have to read wilson. even if it doesn't help your reading of the comic greatly (which i think it will) 'prometheus rising', 'cosmic trigger vol 1.' and 'quantum psychology' are super head fucks.
 
 
--
02:20 / 20.09.02
Yeh, Wilson is one of those authors I've been meaning to read for awhile now just haven't gotten to yet. The book I'm reading right now is Brion Gysin's "The Process", which is very good.

Anyway, I think I've seen the theory before that the blind chessman is the gnostic christ. I find the Invisible's gnostic references interesting as I am familiar with the history of the Gnostics (read most of the Nag Hammadi too).

Okay, so John A'Dreams is Quimper and Flint. But didn't those two characters exist before John stepped into the time suit? What did he do, take over their bodies or what? I'm a little unclear on that point.
 
 
the Fool
06:07 / 20.09.02
Okay, so John A'Dreams is Quimper and Flint. But didn't those two characters exist before John stepped into the time suit? What did he do, take over their bodies or what? I'm a little unclear on that point.

From a 4th dimensional perspective, before and after are mearly co-ordinates. One can enter/leave a three dimensional timestream from any/every point (If your a 4th dimension or higher being, that is).
 
 
The Natural Way
07:26 / 20.09.02
"The Robin baby thing is really only there because of what Quimper, and Robin, are to Grant, as opposed to actually fitting in with the plot, such as it is."

Uh, no, I just don't agree with that - there's a huge birth theme running throughout the Invisibles... The Invisibles is about something being born. I really can't see why you have trouble integrating the idea. And, if you understood my last couple of posts correctly (esp the stuff about magickal symmetry and the spells components being aligned correctly), then you'd realise that my take doesn't reduce to a simple "Horus is the fruit of Robin's loins" plot point. It's the motherhood reiteration, but its "healthy", expansive aspect.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:46 / 20.09.02
So is John A'Dreams 'himself' as that character, or is he Dane playing the 'Invisibles' game in 3.1? I'm trying to work out who he is and when. Or does he/it/they start off as a antibody alien and become John later?

With the 'I am not the God of your fathers' thing mentioned above, doesn't God say in one of the books of the OT that Moses has supposedly written 'I am the God of your fathers'?

And as it seems in the end that all gods and demons are actually ourselves, looking back from after 2012, where then do the Archons come from? I know that in Gnostic tradition they were created by the demi-urge blahblah, but in the Invisibles there is no Demi-Urge, certainly not of the blind, ignorant creator type. Is there?
 
 
The Natural Way
11:24 / 20.09.02
The Archons: the birth trauma experienced by the Horus foetus before its birth.... One answer, anyway. God, I could go into too much detail.....

The John thing: I think yr being too linear. It's not like that for THEM...they have many eyes...many angles.....
 
 
Graeme McMillan
12:32 / 20.09.02
Runce - I mean Robin wanting to call her baby Quimper, as opposed to the ENTIRE Robin baby thing. That's what I get for writing posts at work secretively.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
12:38 / 20.09.02
I dunno. While the resources available to readers are helpful and very much a part of the book (Grant actually getting into trouble with Moorcock for the wholesale lifting of Jerry Cornelius, while we hear nothing of the theft of several ideas of Bryan Talbots), I think that that aspect is a red herring. I'm wrong, of course, but I still think that to understand this series by leaning so heavily on what is not in the work itself but instead what you bring to it if you chase down refrences is a sign that the Invisibles reached critical mass with book 3 and burst into something too big for Grant to handle.
The straight-forward angle of book one was beautiful to me and the story was crisp and very direct while operating on a higher plane. In that case you could get a lot more out of certain issues if you knew what VALIS was or had read Pynchon's 'Crying of Lot 49' or were a Kinks fan (Nice and Smooth), but when book 3 arrives... there is little there but bits of gravy for you to dunk the references in, if that makes sense.

It was a huge disappointment to me and I'll defintely not ruin anyone's enjoyment of it because of my own experience, just sharing is all, and offering my own answer for why there are absent answers to things (like why bring in Robert Chamber's the King in Yellow in 3.6 then not use him?). And what happened to VALIS/Barebelith arriving, etc. Saying that this is all a group of hyper-beings looking back is... not a good answer for me. To me, Grant just got stumped as to how to end it. He had a very definite way to do this as hinted to by the Time Machine usage and Dane/KM's visions of the future, but then we get Dane suddenly being a head master/guidance councelor (I forget which, chaps, help me out), after being involved in a terrorist cell with no other experience. Um... sorry, but how'd he do that? And KM being saved by Audrey (how how how were we supposed to know that if we were not members of this message board??) was very lousy. The various artists messed up what little there was to make sense of in the first place! Suddenly dropping a supporting character into a cryptic scene drawn by another artist... what was Grant thinking? I know the theory on the boards is of peotry that 'isn't it ironic' that she helps the man that killed her husband to the hospital, but... come on. Seriously, would anyone have come up with that outside of these boards?

But I digress, I love issue one.

For me, vol 3 was a disaster with more 'huh's per page. It was as if the series I'd been reading all along were taken over by another writer, and that should not have happened. I'm not alone in this as many of my friends (all big COIL/PKD/Gnostic/occult knowledge people were very disappointed as well)... but that last issue was pure poetry. "The sentence is up." I loved that.

If you want to ignore this, fair enough, but I worked very hard to convey my views in a non-agressive manner while trying to be precise.

Ta.
 
 
--
12:51 / 20.09.02
Well, COIL is a great band.

Anyway, I had my reservations about Volume 3 also. Volume 1 was probably the best in my opinion as it was easier to follow the story. Volume 3 was all over the place. Characters who had done a lot in previous issues just dropped off the charts (Mason, Boy, Jim Crow, Takashi, etc.) while more minor characters I never really cared about (like all of Division X) did a lot more (though I did like Mr.6). I think maybe Grant just ran out of space... I'm still not quite sure how the yellow scarves fit into the plot either... maybe another red herring.

It was nice to see DeSade return though, and I was glad to see Sir Miles fleshed out more (he was always my favorite villian in the series, maybe because he had never been "modified"). I still liked Volume 3 a lot, but it was had a lot of holes in my opinion (even Morrison himself stated once he's never been good at finishing things). I liked the series when it focused more on magic (like vol.1) and less on time travel.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:01 / 20.09.02
Interesting. That's the first time anyone's even slightly agreed with me on vol 3 on these boards.

Huh.

Whadayaknow?

In vol 1 we had the Jim Crow issue (OH YEAH! Remember him??), and the magnificent Lord Fanny story as well. The way in which he sculpted the series from minis was just great for me. Vol Two had its strengths as well with the 'Sound of the Atom Splitting' and the Time Machine Go. It's not that vol 3 being non-linear bugs me, it's that so many plots got dropped and for some reason new ones came up as a kind of replacement for what the entire series was about.

But I'm going to quit while I'm ahead here.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:33 / 20.09.02
I'm with Mister Six on a lot of what he says (although I think the point about Audrey is quite an easy one for astute readers to spot, my problem is when Satan shows Dane his nature as this time worm thing in 3.2, the several most important pages in the entire thing and the artists either fuck up following from Grant's admittedly vague description in the script or in one case draw something entirely different to what he says).

This was what I worried was going to happen somewhere in the middle of the second series when, on the letters page Morrison stops talking about how wonderful the Invisibles is to write and how a lot of crazy stuff is coming true etc etc... and starts talking about how he's taken on too much work so is having to scale back the Invisibles to make it all work.

Maybe as a sigil to wank in the age of Horace the Buck-Toothed God it's fine and dandy but as a work of fiction it leaves something to be desired.
 
 
rizla mission
14:15 / 20.09.02
I still maintain that the first two story arcs of Vol.3 are some of the most brilliant, brilliant bits of the whole series .. it's just the last bunch of issues, where it's like Grant suddenly realises he's only got about 70 pages left to sort out this whole mess and no consistent artist, that things start to go arse over tit..

(haven't we done this one before once or twice?)
 
 
Hieronymus
16:15 / 20.09.02
Yeah we have. All the gripes/concerns stated above over Vol. 3 are completely valid and I felt the same way. But part of me is curious to see the new & improved Vol. 3 that Cameron's doing for November's TPB. The artists were really the Achilles' heel, I felt, and if the art gave Grant's mildly stuffed wrap-up a chance, I think things would've gone off far better. So to me, with revisions coming around the block, the story isn't really finished yet. Two months to go.
 
 
gridley
19:21 / 20.09.02
Was I the only one who would have loved to see a whole series spinoff from the Sensitive Criminals storyline?

God, that was just sooooo the best part of it for me. I liked those characters even more than than the contemporty cast. Edith, Freddy, Queen Mab, the original King Mob, "Brilliant" Billy Chang. Mr. Skit Skat could join up with them sometimes too. Edith could occassionally chat with the contempo King Mob through opium visions. They could get involved with all sorts of 1920s cults, conspiracies, and cryptocrats.
 
 
--
19:47 / 20.09.02
Well, Jim Crow does appear once in Volume 3... in one panel.

Don't get me wrong. I thought there were a lot of good scenes in Vol.3. My problem was The Invisible Kingdom. It just felt kind of anti-clmatic. The way Dane defeated the king Archon was rushed I felt (just looked like he was inhaling smoke or something). Plus the artwork was inconsistent from page to page (scenery kept changing, the characters and their placements kept changing, etc.) I don't know if this was deliberate or what... I wasn't crazy about the final issue either.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:48 / 20.09.02
Personally I enjoyed great chunks of V3...

The 1st storyline was great fun!!!

Ediths journey towards death was probably one of the BEST stories in the whole run!!!

But after that things began to unravel... Goes along with what I read of Grant's theory that it got more & more Complex & fractalized. Still That Last storyline could have used at least one more issue. To me the series as a whole could have used at least one more storyline to wrap up plots assocated with Jim Crow, Takashi, Helga (who to me still should have been the girl that turned out to be Raynard) and Sir Mile's Sperm.
 
 
remorse
20:36 / 20.09.02
Gridley said : Was I the only one who would have loved to see a whole series spinoff from the Sensitive Criminals storyline?

YES!

That is where I started reading. Issue eleven I believe. I didn't understand a thing about what was going on with the hand of glory at all. I couldn't follow the story from one page to the next. I couldn't put it down. I loved it. I read that issue so many times it is in rough shape. For me that is where the story started. Jimenez' art blows me away too. So very consistent.

Oh, it was in the quarter bin by the way. What a way to start a run.
 
 
remorse
20:37 / 20.09.02
oops...I meant NO!
 
 
The Natural Way
07:38 / 23.09.02
All the gripes concerns above are, actually, completely debatable. Fr instance: I DON'T think Grant "lost his way" w/ vol 3, I DON'T think loads of threads were left hanging. I DON'T agree with 6's summation of the book's "conclusion" - "hyper-beings looking back..."; or whatever. I think a lot of peoples "criticisms" of vol 3 are valid: it isn't very casual-reader friendly, it is a little bit too hypertextual - for maximum benefits you did have to really immerse yrself in the text. But there were people on the Barb who did this - Iao, Yawn, Jack Fear, Tom, LookNick..... and you know what? They're the people who came up with all the really meaty, interesting ideas. And the grumblers......

God, I miss the days when you could actually discuss the book without any of the more interesting points being swept under the carpet with a dismissive "it was a mess...it was fucked up...."

Yeah, we've been here a million times before.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:58 / 23.09.02
Who, me? God, no. I was totally lost: I was just reading it for the pictures at that point.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:10 / 23.09.02
Shut it... You always had something interesting to say.
 
 
CameronStewart
12:51 / 23.09.02
Just to let you know - I finished the revised pages for the Vol. 3 trade last week, and Grant said that they were "perfect."

So, maybe it'll work better this time...
 
 
Jack Fear
13:34 / 23.09.02
I love you more than ever, you magnificent bastard.

Give The Grant our love, eh?
 
 
DaveBCooper
15:28 / 23.09.02
Cameron, could you possibly let us know which pages you’ve re-done, please?
Apologies if this has been detailed elsewhere, it’s just that to my mind there were quite a few which seemed to skate over the relevant points – Ridgeway on the Harlequinade as much as Wood on the timeworm, for example.
Thanks !

DBC
 
  

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