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Is David Blunkett Just A Racist?

 
 
Shortfatdyke
08:33 / 18.09.02
I've been wondering whether to even post this thread, because it seems incredibly obvious to me that Blunkett (current Home Secretary for England and Wales) is pretty damn right wing. I have issues with him, admittedly, for opposing the equal age of consent for gay men, and his latest bright idea - to tell people how they can talk at home - underlines what I already feel about him. This was the man who talked of asylum seekers' kids 'swamping' schools, the man who said the 'maniacs' who rioted after the fascist's provoked trouble in the north of England last year shouldn't 'whine' about their gaol sentences. This is an extract from his own essay:

"I have never said, or implied, that lack of fluency in English was in any way directly responsible for the disturbances in Bradford, Burnley and Oldham in the summer of 2001. However, speaking English enables parents to converse with their children in English, as well as in their historic mother tongue, at home and to participate in wider modern culture. It helps overcome the schizophrenia which bedevils generational relationships. In as many as 30% of Asian British households, according to the recent citizenship survey, English is not spoken at home. But let us be clear that lack of English fluency did not cause the riots."

Why bring up the riots if he didn't want to connect them with not speaking English? And note the word 'directly' - sounds like he is blaming Asians for the riots after all, in a roundabout kind of way. And why single out Asians? According to my (Turkish) ex-landlady, a large amount of the Turkish community speak no English, have no interest in this country, and work and live entirely in their own communities. I suppose there's two main questions here:

- how does Blunkett get away with this stuff? Why is he in the Labour Party?

- when does integration become assimilation?

I personally think that a decent command of the language of the country you're living in is necessary for your own benefit. I hate the Brits that go abroad and set up little Englands in the sun, and I'd learn another language because I'd feel lost if I didn't. But telling anyone how to live in this way is appalling, to me. And why shouldn't people retain their cultural/racial identities?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:12 / 18.09.02
I was thinking about starting a topic on this, too- I've just been reading various people's responses to it in yesterday's Guardian, and the consensus there seems to be- yup, he's being racist. And if he ISN't being racist, at the very least it's out of order that a politician should be telling people what to do in their own homes.

And I was pleased to see that someone pulled him up on his incorrect use of the word "schizophrenia"...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:26 / 18.09.02
And why shouldn't people retain their cultural/racial identities?

That's a topic by itself - but there are cultural practices, deeply bound up with the surrounding identities, which are frankly unacceptable to me. The cultures concerned not less legitimate as cultures for that, but that very fact undermines, for me, the notion that cultures are somehow sacrosanct simply because they've been around for a while. Just because our culture is no better, objectively, than another one, does not mean we shouldn't seek to enforce the concerns of our own culture regarding, for a crude example, female circumcision.

All cultural identities are subject to change. Cultures influence and pressure one another all the time, in pervasive and subtle ways. That has to be the case - any culture which refuses to influence others will die, socially, economically, politically - as will any culture which totally rejects outside contact and change.

Some aspects of cultural identity - both ours and others - are things the world might well be better off without.

Let me turn the question around - is it the duty of a democratic and tolerant state (even an aspirant one) to allow or even sponsor the creation of enclaves where those defining characteristics are suspended, in the name of a cultural identity?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
09:32 / 18.09.02
Nick - sorry, I should've added '...in the form of language'. I wanted to concentrate on language and Blunkett's essay in this thread, so I should've been more clear.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:39 / 18.09.02
It's pretty tempting to learn Urdu, and speak ONLY Urdu at home, just as a "fuck you" to Blunkett.

It's a pretty sorry state of affairs when a country that's the laughing stock of Europe for its general ignorance of others' languages is now trying to crack down on the multilingual within itself...
 
 
Bill Posters
11:43 / 18.09.02
Um... hate to say it, but isn't there a rather loose use of the word 'racist' here? When did he say anything about 'race'? What's 'race' got to do with language?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:55 / 18.09.02
sfd - I'm not sure you can separate the language and the culture - a language is one way of setting space aside and saying 'the rules here are not the rules there'. Must think more.

I'm not sure what I think about Blunkett: I don't think he has what you might call an 'active racism' going on, in that I doubt he conceives of himself as better because white etc. By law, I think, any legislation which affects one ethnicity markedly more than another may be challenged as 'racist', even if that effect is actually a side-effect of the theoretical target of the legislation (Fist? Where are you?) and I think Blunkett may be a racist in the sense that his desire to weld society into a coherent whole pushes him in the direction of actions and ideas which are functionally or passively racist, or racially biased and antagonistic.

Certainly, he has a talent for saying the devastatingly stupid.
 
 
Fist Fun
14:08 / 18.09.02
Blunkett is making a very obvious point - living in a country where you don't speak the language is difficult. However, dictating how people speak in their own homes is a bit mad, really. Two really obvious points, then.

If non-english speaking enclaves do exist then the people most harmed will be the inhabitants themselves. So, this isn't really overt racism. I think that is being unfair.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:20 / 18.09.02
Talent for saying the devastatingly stupid or talent for embodying the devastatingly stupid?

Blunkett's speeches grate on me and this essay appears as bad as anything else. It's a pathetic piece of writing, he's certainly trying to get a view across, unfortunately it comes across more as a man meandering through these ideas in his own lame kind of way. The piece centres around the use of the word 'schizophrenia' and because that is used entirely out of a relevant context this section of the essay makes little sense. Thus there is no relevant point to the article.

He contradicts himself because he refuses to actually say what he means and dresses it up while trying to excuse himself from the racist ethic. Why doesn't he just say that he thinks it would be more practical to have the language of the country you reside in? Ah, back to the beginning, he embodies the devastatingly stupid.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:03 / 18.09.02
Yeah, Bill's got a point (which I think other people have variously implied too)- dunno if Blunkett's a racist per se, but yeah, the devastatingly stupid thing does seem to apply.

Trouble is, even if he's not actively being racist, it is, indeed, devastatingly stupid to bung some of his comments (the whole whining maniacs thing, to pick just a very easy example) into a live issue like race relations in the UK.

I don't think in his heart of hearts he's a bad guy. I'm sure he means well. But in a position such as he's in, well-meaning just isn't gonna cut it.

I have a lot of time for his guide dog Lucy though. Threw up in the Commons once, and has been known to fuck off and wait outside in the corridor for him when he's been getting boring. I'd vote for her any day.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:46 / 18.09.02
Of course David Blunkett isn't 'just' a racist - he's an enormously influential racist who uses a considerable position of power to push forward an openly xenophobic agenda; who's played a major part in whipping up hysteria about the "threat" posed by the dreaded asylum seekers in numerous forums, including writing articles for The Daily Mails supporting the paper's stance; who meantime actively plays a part in and supports increasing the misery and deprivation suffered by such incredible vulnerable and long-suffering people, a little taste of which can be found here; who says refugees from Kosovo and Afghanistan should "get back home and rebuild their countries" - a slap in the face made all the more disgusting by the part the government he serves in played in devatsating those countries... I could go on. Suffice to say, we should be under no illusions about what a man like Blunkett means when he says that New Labour must focus on issues like immigration and cultural/racial differences in order to avoid the debate being dominated by the far right: he means that New Labour must adopt the rhetoric and policies of the far right on these issues in order to avoid losing votes.

I would take no displeasure in pissing on this man's bloody corpse.
 
 
Fist Fun
20:48 / 18.09.02
Maybe we should be avoiding terms like racist? Yes? No? Saying that if you live in Britain then you will be extremely marginalised if you don't speak the language - well that is self evident.

Is it possible to be not be 100% pro-immigration and not be a screaming racist? I'm sure many people on barbelith would support a truly global citizenship but that isn't a widely held view in the UK.

I don't see why focussing "on issues like immigration and cultural/racial differences" should necessarily mean the adoption of far right attitudes. These are huge issues we need to focus on them. By we I mean an imaginary global electorate/body rather than the real national (in this case uk) electorate/body. I think one real problem here is that, with a national parliament making decisions, only one side of the debate is represented.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
05:00 / 19.09.02
A few points: the term 'racist' was used in the form of a question. Meaning I thought it was relevant to discuss whether or not David Blunkett is racist. A fair question, I thought, bearing in mind the stuff he's been coming out with, which seems to amount to, 'if you come over here, you must relinquish everything and assimilate into Britishness'. And then we might forgive you for being Asian. It reminded me of the people who say that queers should stop looking and acting like queers, and that when we get attacked in the street we must have provoked it (by being there, mainly).

Stoatie - I don't agree. I think Blunkett is a pretty nasty character and I read about his call to 'get back to Kosovo/Afghanistan' and I would say he's just ignorant, but in his position he should know it's not that easy. As Flyboy says, we've done our bit in making a mess in places like Afghanistan, so therefore we have a duty to help sort it out. Again, Blunkett opposed equalising the age of consent for gay men. So he's homophobic to boot.

Buk - I've always thought it made sense to learn the language of the country you live in, but Blunkett's going a long way further than that.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:10 / 19.09.02
Hey, don't get me wrong- I'm no fan of the guy. I think a lot of truly evil characters from history have probably been "well-meaning"- just horribly wrong as to what the "right" thing to do is. Didn't stop 'em being evil, though. But that's another issue entirely.

The sad truth is that most racism seems to be, not just born from, but carried out in ignorance- I don't expect Blunkett, when he was writing that essay, thought to himself "ah yes, that's good and racist, that is". Like the guy who says "I'm no racist, you know, some of my best friends are black" and then proceeds to be extremely racist without noticing any discrepancy.

Just because I think stupidity is the reason, doesn't mean I think it's an excuse.

Still like the dog, though.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:12 / 19.09.02
I don't see why focussing "on issues like immigration and cultural/racial differences" should necessarily mean the adoption of far right attitudes.

Just to clarify: it doesn't. However, this is the euphemistic disguise/justification for doing so offered by the Labour party to appease the minor liberal tendencies of the middle classes (very minor, really). Of course we should focus on immigration: focus on welcoming it, and demolishing our borders entirely as an example to the rest of the world. Some chance, eh?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:38 / 19.09.02
Blunkett's latest sally - saying that young Afghans and so on should go home and rebuild their countries - is a very stupid thing to say in some ways, but in others, he's quite right: if they don't, who will?

Maybe we should be running a 'nation-building' course. Civil engineering, liberal democracy, administration, infrastructure design etc., so that we're creating a capability for change and reconstruction in nations which need it, rather than leeching from them.

And Fly, I'd like to see a little more discussion of the global consequences of completely open borders.
 
 
Cat Chant
14:02 / 19.09.02
Sorry for threadrot, but I think it's at least partly relevant to the background.

On the "open borders" thing, Nick/Flyboy, I would like to report Slavoj Zizek's blistering attack on the argument that European countries should just open their borders. I think he has a point - I certainly think it's an interesting challenge to my own tendencies to "demandons l'impossible" - but I also think he doesn't mean that we should just leave things as they are (would be nice if he suggested what we should do, but I've learned to be realistic in my expectations from cultural theorists ):

When today's Left bombards the capitalist system with demands that it obviously cannot fulfil... it is basically playing a game of hysterical provocation, of addressing the Master with a demand which will be impossible for him to meet, and will thus expose his impotence. The problem with this strategy, however, is not only that the system cannot meet these demands, but that, in addition, those who voice them do not really want them to be realized. For example, when 'radical' academics demand full rights for immigrants and opening of the borders, are they aware that the direct implementation of this demand would, for obvious reasons, inundate developed Western countries with millions of newcomers, thus provoking a violent working-class racist backlash which would then endanger the privileged position of those very academics? Of course they are, but they count on the fact that their demand will not be met - in this way, they can hypocritically retain their clear radical conscience while continuing to enjoy their privileged position.
 
 
Cat Chant
14:06 / 19.09.02
When did he say anything about 'race'? What's 'race' got to do with language?

Bill - most theorists of "race" at the moment have been tracing the ways in which the "modernist" structures of racism, based on biological essentialism - think Hitler - have been replaced by new structures which use the liberal focus on "culture" and "multiculture" but construct "culture" as an intractable difference. Hence the BNP are unlikely to say that black/Asian people are genetically inferior to whites, more likely to say that their "culture" means they are unable to assimilate into British "culture" and therefore - they should leave the country.

That's what language has to do with race. It's part of the new ideological constellation justifying the unequal treatment of ethnic groups, identifiable now more by "cultural" signifiers (cf all the hoo-hah about the veil, Pim Fortuyn's thing about how they can't let any Muslims into Holland because "their culture" is inferior to "ours") than by "natural" ones.
 
 
Bill Posters
17:44 / 19.09.02
Cheers D, yeah, I know what they mean even if IMHO it's an interesting use of 'racism'.

Can't do this link properly but him who was heralded as "the new Camus" has made a comment which some would call a racist one:

daily telegraph quote
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:57 / 20.09.02
Deva: not very impressed with Slavoj Zizek's comments as cited. Three main points of contention here. The first would be that he seems to be suggesting that the No Borders movement, such as it is, is either comprised entirely of or at least dominated by "'radical' academics" - a fairly standard piece of reactionary rhetoric which as ever dismisses as non-existent or irrelevant the grass roots support for the idea of open borders - for example, apparently the voices of refugees and asylum seekers themselves are not to be counted by Zizek, a stance which would go down very well in the corridors of Westminster. In addition, I cannot stress how sick I am of hearing that anyone who is privileged themselves and campaigns for changes in society that would render themselves less privilged cannot possibly mean what they say...

Secondly, the idea that people who campaign for open borders are "playing a game of hysterical provocation, of addressing the Master with a demand which will be impossible for him to meet, and will thus expose his impotence" is remarkably condescending and offensive, assuming as it does that the motivations for campaigning are not as stated. Since we've already established that Zizek is deaf to the voices of refugees themselves, it's hardly surprising that their actual motivation (to be treated fairly and humanely just for starters) is not considered, but is Zizek really so immersed in theory and detached from the real world that the idea of compassion as a motive for campaiging against human suffering cannot be considered?

Thirdly, alleged fear of "provoking a violent working-class racist backlash" is again a pretty standard justification for imposing harsh and often inhumane immigration policies. In fact, the plight of the white working class is frequently thrown up as an excuse for various forms of racism by (porfessedly) left wing commentators. It is claimed by Julie Burchill and her ilk that underprivileged white people are "driven" to, for example, voting for the BNP, because they are neglected by the government - neglected, it is implied, in favour of non-whites, immigrants etc, who are given special treatment. This fist quite nicely with myths of political correctness, the liberal elite, etc etc, and has proved a popular notion. The truth is a little different: the white working classes are neglected by their governments - or indeed actively shat upon - but in favour of the wealthy middle and upper classes.

Nick: I find the suggestion that 'we' should be running a 'nation-building' course disgusting, for reasons that I'm surprised you even need outlining. Are the United States and Britain to teach the "developing world" Colonial Oppression for Beginners, Advanced Murderous Foreign Policy and Economic Double-Standards 101? In reality, many "developing" nations have learnt a great deal from 'us' about how 'civilised' nations are expected to behave - surprisingly, 'we' tend not to support them when they follow out examples (cf: Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, an act for which he would have no doubt been highly lauded had he been acting with 'our' support or even permission). But this is off-topic...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:55 / 20.09.02
Are the United States and Britain to teach the "developing world" Colonial Oppression for Beginners, Advanced Murderous Foreign Policy and Economic Double-Standards 101?

I think we're teaching those anyway. Civil engineering, however, probably wouldn't hurt, and a brief 'theory and history of feminism and sexual equality' and so on might not go amiss for some. Medicine, administration, non-zero-sum negotiation... things you actually need to build states with. Just because our government is behaving like an ass doesn't mean nothing in our culture is worth sharing. Or shall we refuse foreigners access to our educational institutions in order to preserve their helpless little minds from the taints of cultural and actual imperialism?

If the developed world governments are not the right people to be (re)building nations - and I'll grant that they probably are not - how will those nations get built if we leech away their young talent?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:03 / 20.09.02
Do I get an extra point for being the first to invoke Godwin's Law?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
15:32 / 20.09.02
No. Discussions of politics - especially discussions of colonialism and European crypto-totalitarianism - are exempted from Godwin's Law because these comparisons may be valid, meaningful references.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:28 / 20.09.02
Nick- yeah, but they may also be shorthand. A racist doesn't equal a fascist, any more than a fascist equals a Nazi. They're all different flavours of shit. Shit nonetheless, but I think the difference is important. Yeah, I hate them all equally, but when confronted with an argument, "know your enemy" seems a good strategy.
 
 
Cat Chant
17:06 / 20.09.02
Oops! Chairman Maominstoat, was it me that brought Godwin's Law into effect? Sorry - I genuinely meant to mention Hitler as an example of someone who believed that race was biologically definable & hierarchical - or at least justified his racist policies by reference to such an understanding of "race" - in order to differentiate that form of racism from the ways in which it operates today. I wasn't meaning to equate or even connect (except by way of contrast) Blunkett or anyone else with the egregious Mr Hitler - rather trying, if you will, to elaborate on the different flavours of shit with which we are dealing.

Bill: I kind of see what you mean about the term "racist" but I'm not sure the term "discriminating against people of non-Anglo-Saxon ethnic origins but legitimating said discrimination by reference to the intractability of the cultural traditions of such ethnic groups rather than to their biological characteristics" is going to catch on. Even the acronym isn't much better.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:29 / 21.09.02
But that raises an issue, doesn't it? If there are intractable cultural traditions (which I frankly doubt) which are incompatible with our ideals (not, alas, our execution of society), are we compelled to put up with them?

And if there are tractable ones, are we allowed to change 'em? Or is that more cultural imperialism - and if so, is it a graver sin to act to counter, say, entrenched patriarchal oppression in another culture, or to leave it on the basis that interference (defined by one liberal idea) is cultural imperialism, and this overrules objections based on notions of gender equality (another liberal idea)?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:46 / 21.09.02
Just heard the following joke on the wonderful Radio 4's not-quite-so-wonderful-but sometimes-very-funny Now Show-

"Yeah, we all know about David Blunkett's guide dog... what he really needs is a tact dog."

followed by

"It's hard to keep up with Blunkett's Britain, isn't it? You can smoke a spliff in your own home, but if you ask for the Rizlas in Urdu you're in trouble."
 
 
higuita
14:34 / 21.09.02
To follow up Nick's point, there's an interesting parallel occurring this weekend.
If you take the cultures of town and country as separate, does it mean it's wrong for the majority (towndwellers) to impose their culture on the country, and ban fox-hunting?

Just an idea. Don't get me wrong on this one, as I think fox-hunting is shit.

With David Blunkett, I think we're seeing the problems of elected democracy in action. For some reason, and I can't help thinking it's been the agenda of the media, immigration has become a hot topic and an issue of concern. Why, I don't know, as I've yet to see problems caused by the fact of someone moving country - what problems there are seem to come from how that fact is handled.
But a large number of voting people are concerned, and our elected representatives have to take that concern on board. Hence the bollocks. And a lot of it does seem to be knee-jerk - but some people are responding.

Speaking the language of a country is important - people who choose not to don't do themselves many favours. But what happens in the home does no harm, and that's where my countryside analogy may make a difference.

P.S. Very few people object to the presence of my friend Tom, a German. There's a few idiots obviously, but no-one ever accused him of being an economic migrant. Well, apart from me, but I'd been drinking. For that matter, I can't remember many people objecting to anyone Irish in a long time. Never have I heard anyone say 'fuck off back where you came from, and take your alien ways and guinness with you.'
It may seem silly, but I'm sure there's a point in there.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:03 / 22.09.02
Hmmm.

I like the 'open borders' idea in theory, but it's one of those Bucky Fuller ideas, really - it only works if EVERYBODY does it, and at the minute, in some parts of the world, people are too scared to take that kind of a risk. It's the same with the idea of tolerance: we're actually fairly tolerant (relatively speaking...how long that remains the case is open to question) whereas countries like Saudi Arabia, for example, are too afraid of other ideas to allow them any space. Even ideas as old and decrepit as Xtianity are regarded as a threat.

In a curious way, I see all this, plus the comments of Blunkett and Fortuyn, as politicians struggling to grasp the importance of memetics. What, after all, was Fortuyn saying, if not that the Dutch should take measures to defend their own meme against being invaded and colonised (in the biological sense) by an alien idea-complex? Blunkett is similar: in his own cockeyed way, he's realised that it is not a good position, memetically speaking, for Muslims (and let's be clear - in the current context, when Blunkett talks about asylum seekers, that's what he means) to hide in self-contained enclaves, because an idea that can't cross-pollinate with other ideas will eventually decay into extreme negative forms and die (which is why I finally came down against Fortuyn's ideas - the Dutch libertarian meme should have found other ways to deal with the challenge of the Islamic meme, possibly by absorbing some of it's qualities). Unfortunately, Blunkett - or the media - or Blunkett, when communicating with the media - is unable to present this idea as anything other than tired old Norman Tebbitt style 'cricket test' bollocks.

This is also why I think the 'nation-building' classes Nick speaks of are a good idea. What's to stop us explaining, in these classes, that we fucked it up in the past, and are trying to put things right now? Let's face it: we have a lot of experience of doing things the wrong way, and we can warn people against that - but we also know what actually DOES work, and it would be wrong of us to deprive people of that.

I believe the best thing we can do to prevent further wars and terrorist activity is to share not just wealth and resources, but information, with the developing world. Not just the information that allows you to build a dam, a railway, or a water purifier either, but information on our theories of psychology, neurology, and culture. If people understand themselves better, they're more likely to understand other people, and less likely to want to kill them.

As usual, the politicos are one step behind. While Congress and Parliament discuss the ethics of genetics and cloning, memetics and the engineering of new idea complexes are, in fact, the challenge that radicals have to take up, if we're going to try and make the world more free.

And this may mean a lot of re-engineering on all sides.
 
  
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