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XXX and Bond 20

 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
13:54 / 17.09.02
XXX and Bond 20
So, XXX. He's Xander Cage, thrill seeking pumped-up extreme sportsman blackmailed by the NSA into becoming a secret agent! It's the new Bond, says everyone (well, the studio making it). Meanwhile Bond #20, Die Another Day is coming out. This raises a few questions:

1) Is XXX the new James Bond?
2) If it is, is that a good thing?
3) If it isn't the new Bond, what is?
4) Is the James Bond franchise dead or redundant?

I must confess to having a guilty fondness for the James Bond formula, despite 75% of the films being appauling formulaic crap, and a few of the rest only salvaged with a hefty lump of Postmodern irony being thrown in the skillet. The most recent Bond films exist in Bond's parallel action universe with a smidgen of topicality.
XXX's claim to the throne is that it replaces the sixties retro sheen with extreme sports. For some reason this sticks in my craw. Personally I hate the whole Jackass, SkaterD00D scene, although I guess I should work through that on my own. The cult of cool surrounding Vin Diesel based mainly on his baldness and gravelly voice is ultimately no different than that surrounding Sean Connery. So why do I like Connery and hate Diesel?
I guess the reason I don't buy XXX as the new Bond is that when the Bond formula was created it had at least an element of originality. XXX seems to feed off Bond (geeky inventor sidekick, fortress of bad guys, women, Samuel J as M) and also cannibalises Mission Impossible and Escape From New York.
I supposed I should reserve all this speculation until I've actually seen XXX. But I don't want to see it.
Ach, this post is just one giant ranting ramble. I think I'll leave it to you guys to transform it into a worthwhile intellectual discourse.
 
 
Saint Keggers
14:42 / 17.09.02
I was soooo dissapointed when I saw XXX. It was loud just for the sake of being loud. They threw in little smart assed quips which were not funny. I found myself likeing the villain more than XXX. Have I mentionned how loud it was? I found the plot to be...dull. I felt my IQ dropping while watching it. James Bond is Olympic Wresting and this was the worst or the WCW.This is the Bond for all those who have lost their attention span.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:55 / 17.09.02
The thing about Bond is that it is a franchise and not simply a film. The guys who make them have been doing it for years and their kids are beginning to get involved now. It's not redundant simply because of the amount the premiere tickets sell for. Incidentally this is the last film Brosnan's doing, sorry to rot your thread but who do you think should be the next one? Apparently they were considering Jude Law...
 
 
videodrome
15:31 / 17.09.02
Bond blows. Out of twenty or so films, I can think of about five that I'd be even halfway interested in watching, and of those five two (Casino Royale and On Her Majesty's Secret Service) are far outside the Bond mainstream. OHMSS is the only 'real' Bond film it would ever occur to me to want to see if I didn't flip past it on the telly. I'd much rather watch the Flint films where the misogyny is both in the open and ridiculed simultaneously.

The action in the Bond films is tired, the jokes are unfunny and the scripts rarely more than a hackneyed series of conventions and foolish plot twists. Bond is intended to be titillation, but somehow makes even that uninteresting. The films are slow with no tension or real intrigue to bridge the interminable passages where nothing happens.

So yeah, XXX is the new Bond, for a new generation of inattentive X-Games addicts. Perhaps one day I'll flip past it on the telly and stare for a moment at Asia Argento's midriff before moving on to reruns ofThe Simpsons. Until then I can think of far better ways to spend my nine bucks. Crack, for example.
 
 
paw
15:37 / 17.09.02
yeah but its bond videodrome!
 
 
Saint Keggers
02:34 / 18.09.02
Videodrome:
Which bond films have you seen?
 
 
videodrome
03:02 / 18.09.02
Which bond films have you seen?

All of them with the exception of the Dalton ones; I think I've only seen parts of License.... Didn't see TWINE, either. Most of the films I've seen more than once, due to their longevity on television and cable. I love OHMSS, but feel that most of them are little more than big-budget television. Dr. No is fun and From Russia... ain't bad, but beyond that I'm unconvinced. I was seeing the new ones in the theatre for a while, but Tomorrow Never Dies put an end to that.

I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) it's odd that Bond is so highly esteemed in the UK and european markets because of the character's nationality, despite the fact that the films are so unequivicably American. There's no doubt that having a Scot (or simply a non-American) as the biggest action star in the world held great value for people outside the states, which I can understand, but the films just aren't that good. A lot of people still seem to find them entertaining, but I'm bored by them more often than not.
 
 
RadJose
07:13 / 18.09.02
am i wrong or is it every 5 years or so some movie comes along and tries to be the Bond of the current generation? from what i heard the new Bond flick is to have visual references to the other Bond films... kinda like a game... self-referential fun for the Bond-elite... i like the fact that Bond often changes, but when Q retires they bring in a new charater to replace him... heh heh... anyway... i always thought a Bond like franchise shoulda been built arround Buckaroo Banzai... so what do i know
 
 
The Strobe
07:15 / 18.09.02
I strongly agree with Videodrome. I find Bond pretty heavy going at times, and don't understand the general adulation for it. There are a few I will admit to liking, but most of the time, my problem is that just because "it's Bond!" doesn't mean I can't hate it for being shit. Bond is not an excuse for crap action sequences, or dodgy scripts, or misogyny, or surprisingly strong violence inappropriately targetted (the black guy getting burnt and run over in Dr. No, and the entirely needless execution Bond carries out in Tomorrow Never Dies both stuck in my throat).

I liked Man With the Golden Gun, though, and I do love Ken Adam's set designs. Can't stand Roger Moore. Can't stand Licence to Kill and Tomorrow Never Dies - though I rather liked Living Daylights; it seemed a little more human than most. My favourite Bond film, though, is The World Is Not Enough, simply because I'd have liked it if it WASN'T Bond. It actually held up relatively well, IMHO, as an action movie. And I find that if you strip away the excuse of Bond, many of the others just... aren't very good.

To be honest, I thought True Lies was a better Bond movie than Tomorrow Never Dies; I caught them around the same time, and at least TL was REALLY silly and didn't pretend to be anything else.
 
 
The Strobe
07:18 / 18.09.02
That all said: I have seen the trailer for Die Another Day, and it does look pretty damn good. Again, like TWINE - not as a Bond movie, but simply as an action movie.

I can't wait to see the preview.
 
 
bio k9
07:57 / 18.09.02
I thought True Lies was the new Bond...
 
 
DaveBCooper
10:51 / 18.09.02
Exactly – as radjose says, every few years or so they say something is the new Bond… when True Lies or XXX have ten or so films under their belt, maybe we can see if thisis the case, or if it’s a one-off.
And the extreme sports angle of XXX (which I hadn’t heard about before, I’ll admit) strikes me as something that’s likely to date in a hell of a hurry, whereas quite a few of the older Bond films have a certain timeless sheen… but some of then stink, stink, STINK. Let’s not pretend otherwise.

DBC
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
11:26 / 18.09.02
I guess it all comes down to what you want. The Bond films started out closer to the novels, and then each successive film attempted to top the next with the size of the stunts, the ambition of the villain... Then when Roger Moore slithered into view it became more comedy oriented. And shit.
Since Goldeneye revamped the formula the films have been mainly attempts to counterfeit Goldfinger. Opening Sequence. Mission. Gadgets. Villain. Girls. Secret Base. Quips. The End. All franchises strive to build their own successful template. Witness Alien Resurrection.
I'm finding it hard to keep my posts coherent on this thread. I'm having real trouble trying to make the point I have in mind. Maybe because I'm not sure what the point is. I agree with everyone that the Bond franchise has previously been the home of lazy stereotyping, casual racism and sexism, and some of the worst acting, plots and sexual puns since Carry On Columbus. But something about XXX to me seems worse. I still can't pin down my objections. Maybe it's the machismo, the whole 'cool nightclub' scene the villains inhabit. Reminds me of Swordfish...
 
 
The Strobe
11:35 / 18.09.02
Ah yes. Swordfish. One of the best explosions ever in Cinema. And one of the worst movies. Stank to high heaven, I tell you.
 
 
videodrome
12:52 / 18.09.02
... i always thought a Bond like franchise shoulda been built arround Buckaroo Banzai...

You're not the only one. Peter Weller, Earl Mac Rauch (writer, who also wrote the first Superman novel, which many feel should have been used as the template for the first film) and W.D. Richter (director) all feel the same way. But the story goes that the producer, or whoever holds the rights currently, doesn't feel the same way. Many people have wanted to make at least another BB film for a long time and the rights holder has blocked all of it. Which doesn't make any sense, but there you go...

As for the topic at hand, I agree with Bizunth about a couple of things. The immediate need the Bond franchise developed for topping itself every time is a self-defeating strategem, at least from the standpoint of trying to make a good movie, rather than trying to put asses in seats, for which bigger and better is clearly a workable tactic. And yes, it is a franchise - a cash cow and little more. But that means the films typically suck.

And I, too, find XXX somehow offensive, while Bond is just boring. I don't know what it is, and since I'm certainly not going to shell out for the film, I'm not likely to figure it out any time soon. Perhaps it's that Bond at least attempts to have a bit of style and class (even if it fails) while XXX, to me, looks very crass. That, and the "if we market it, you will come" attitude the film so glaringly proffers. And even the implied use of 'extreme' (i.e. Extreme Sports) just makes me want to hit things, but maybe that's just the fact that the word is inescapable in American advertising.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:01 / 18.09.02
Can't stand Living Daylights and Tomorrow Never Dies - though I rather liked Living Daylights; it seemed a little more human than most.

Eh?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:05 / 18.09.02
The new bond film's got some fantastic scenes in it though I'm not sure I like Halle Berry as a lead female role. The opening chase sequence sounds really really worth wasting money on- of course I can't tell you what happens because they'd have to kill me... or sue me.
 
 
The Strobe
14:54 / 18.09.02
Cretinous error on my part, E Randy. I like Living Daylights. I hate Licence to Kill. Got stuck in a Dalton-loop; moderated to correct.
 
 
rizla mission
15:17 / 18.09.02
Bond blows.

Yes. Leaving aside for a minute the fact that they're almost all completely arse, it seems to me the whole franchise has always been dumb (not in a good way), reactionary and terminally unimaginative.

Looking at the elements of the Bond formula, I find they can all be judged on a sliding scale from "obsolete" to "boring" to "openly offensive"..

Also, the kind of people who revere Bond often seem to be Loaded/Daily Mail readers, military nuts, tories and, well, generally obnoxious bastards to be honest .. he seems to function as a kind of mascot and ideal to that particular kind of laddish ideology, and as such is my natural enemy.

And his one-liners are about as funny as re-runs of "To The Manor Born".

Though having said that, the one with the voo-doo (Live & Let Die?) is bloody hilarious..

Sorry for the rant.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:37 / 18.09.02
Michelle Yeoh was the best thing to ever happen to a Bond Flick!!!
 
 
paw
23:32 / 18.09.02
don't get me wrong, i think bonds formulaic mush, no matter how much brosnan spouts on about 'bond dealing with his inner demons'. i don't know, maybe it's cause of the endless re-runs of the film at christmas when i was a kid. I genuinely enjoyed bond when i was younger, me and my paps used to laugh at all the roger moore movies and for a few years at least it was toys-christmas dinner- joy of discovering new connery bond film. Nostalgia i guess.
 
  
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