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Who enjoys opera?

 
 
George Clinton and the Funky Parliament
17:47 / 13.09.02
Who enjoys opera? My favorite would have to be the one about the clown, which the name of has slipped my mind.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:17 / 13.09.02
I went to see a ballet of Madam Butterfly the other day and it wasn' on a par with the opera. I'm a Puccini girl through and through. Should this be in music?
 
 
CameronStewart
18:28 / 13.09.02
Pagliacci is the name you're searching for, I should think.

I say the thread should stay here - it's Film, TV, and THEATRE.
 
 
Trijhaos
18:51 / 13.09.02
I've seen one opera. It was based on the children's book, Where the Wild Things Are . Although I couldn't understand it since it was in German, I liked it well enough.

Since I currently live in a cultural void, my chances of seeing operas, ballets, and the like are few and far between.
 
 
that
18:55 / 13.09.02
I've seen a couple - Carmen (bo-oring beyond belief and certainly not worth the numb arse you get with the bench-style cheap seats), and The Barber of Seville which I actually enjoyed, pretty much. It was reasonably amusing... but I am not opera literate at all, and I don't think I'll be trying very hard to become so.
 
 
kagemaru
19:12 / 13.09.02
Sadly I find male voices in opera absolutely insufferable.
I have, on the other hand, a soft spot for soprano and mezzo arias - Kiri Te Kanawa and Edita Gruberova are old-time icons of mine.

Where composers are concerned, of the Italians, I'd go for Rossini. The others are just a bunch of sickos that have to kille the woman just because ;-P

Purcell's Dido and Aeneas is good, as is Gay's "Beggar's Opera".
And there's some good Rimsky-Korsakov - operatic adaptations of old legends about witches and things.
Funny.
 
 
The Strobe
20:33 / 13.09.02
I'm ashamed, as a music-lover, by how little I know about Opera.

Dido and Aeneas IS lovely, in all the right ways. I also really enjoyed Marriage of Figaro, though it's frothy beyond belief; that said, weightier Mozart interests me as well.

I'm also very keen to see Nixon in China, and for that matter, Jerry Springer: the Opera, simply because they've had good reviews and are fascinating ideas.

Also, as part of the Tragedy paper I'm doing this term, there's a four week course by an English fellow on his pet subject, Wagner, to which I am definitely going. I have a feeling, bar the politics, that I'm probably going to like it.

Basically, I don't know enough, and I ought to know more. And, as a music/theatre lover who likes classical music a lot (albeit not often the composers who turned their hands to opera), I've got no excuse.
 
 
Mazarine
20:34 / 13.09.02
The only opera I've seen live is Faust, but it was a gorgeous thing to behold. I do like opera, and now that I'm closer to a major metro area, I'm hoping I can see more.
 
 
Mazarine
20:37 / 13.09.02
I'm also going to back Cameron and push for this thread to remain here. Please.
 
 
inca
21:24 / 13.09.02
in terms of comedy, you can not go wrong with mozart, marriage of figario, don giovanni, or even the magic flute (some occult overtones)

for more hardcore, serious opera, i prefer wagner's the rings (motifs, german myths, etc)

this season i have plans to see rigolleto and barber of seville

see ya
 
 
videodrome
21:24 / 13.09.02
Of course this thread is staying here. It's opera. Takes place on a bloody stage, right? End of story.

...wish I knew more about it than that, though. My only recent experience has been with Herzog's Fitzcarraldo.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
00:34 / 14.09.02
For easy reference, there's a page of plot summaries - admittedly not complete - here.

Inca: I agree that Mozart's operas (particularly the daPointe (?) ones) are comic gems, I really would hesitate to place Don Giovanni in there. It's really a dark piece of work, pretty much driven by Mozart's guilt over his father's death; in a lot of ways, I think it prefigures his requiem mass; a big, black truckload of woe. That said, it's one of my favourite operas.

I've always been kinda hooked on opera; on the fact that it's about, usually, grandiose statement. I don't have much time for Puccini (though I imagine that'll come) or overly-romantic (musically, not emotionally) stuff, but rather dark and sly. Favourites? Don Giovanni, as mentioned, but also Gounod's Faust and Weber's Die Freischütz. Some of Wagner I have an affection for, also. The Magic Flute, precisely for the Masonic imagery, is also fine; but the Papageno/Papagena duet is also heartbreakingly sweet.

Really, for me, it's the fact that there's such a combination of story and raw emotive power (in music) in one place that makes opera work. Recordings work very well on their own, even if I do have to follow the libretto to know what's going on- but seeing an opera performed well onstage is something that's just incredible; I feel more involved in opera performances than in theatre, sometimes... I put it down to the music.

I also think that Operetta (which is what things like The Merry Widow and all Gilbert & Sullivan works are) is something that's overlooked and would make a great introduction to opera for people who think the big guns are too much to get into at once. 'Cos they're kinda one-step-away-from-panto but have charming tunes, I'd plump for the G&S: you cannot claim piracy without having ever heard The Pirates Of Penzance. Honest.

I think the problem that opera has, in addition, is that it suffers from the image of being particulary old or stuffy, which isn't the case at all. P to the Aleface has mentioned John Adams' operas: The Death Of Klinghoffer (working without a net, no guarantees of name correctness) created a shitstorm because of its subject matter. Robert Wilson still hammers together a couple of jawdroppers a year, but most people who diss opera out of hand probably wouldn't be aware of them. There are requisite fucked-up-music operas, too: Dallapiccola's The Prisoner or Ligeti's Le Grande Macabre being two that rarely get out. Tom Waits has produced a shitload of stuff that heads towards opera and away from musical; in my mind, the two are quite closely linked. Things like The Black Rider came out of Weber's Der Freuschutz, and both Waits' last albums were comprised of music written for the stage. Likewise, one of my favourite Australian composers, Elena Kats-Chernin has one or two written; I've just not seen them performed, possibly because they're not as seat-filling as a Mostly Mozart season.

It could be, perhaps, that the genre is still seen as monolithic and shambolic, Hildas in horn-hats and breastplates. In fact, I think it *is*. And it's seen as something people have to *work* at overmuch. Despite liking opera, I'd never gone to see one until about eight years ago. And I went because I'd always had a thing about the Faust myth, and because they plugged it on TV in a very sort of Se7en stylee. Which is hackneyed and crap, but worked. It broke it out of the stuffy mould, for a lot of people. The biggest problems still to overcome? Ticket price - these things cost a fuckload to put on - and the audience themselves. I paid for A res seats (and yeah, I was working in the mailroom at this point, so it was a pretty fucking big deal to me) which were second-best; only the premium were better, and you end up with a bassoon player on your lap if you pick 'em. But anyway - the audience consisted largely of fucking rude stereotypical gray-rinsers who seemed more interested in who was there than what was on stage. Admittedly, this is what opera facilitated, initially, but it was really disturbing. I had to tap a particularly garrulous crone on the back several times, eventually telling her that despite the fact that this was as routine to her as a blow-dry, it was a big deal to me, and that I certainly hadn't come to hear her wank on about who was making the lunches at the local bowling club. For which my reward was silence - yes! But it really coloured my view, you know? I was the youngest person there, and definitely got looked down on as not good enough for being there.

So yeah - I guess the audience sometimes seems to consist of monied people who go to the opera because that's what people in their socioeconomic position do, not because they actually enjoy it. Fuck them. Make it more about people who are passionate or want to actually pay attention, and I think opera companies will experience reversals in fortune, and find a clientele who is willing to embrace things other than the old warhorses.

Pricewise, I don't know what can be done, unless there's more government funding of opera, some kind of subsidising of tickets. Strangely, even though I'd forked out a shitload of money for Faust, I didn't begrudge the company one cent. It was an immersive experience; hidden angel choirs, about fifty people on stage at times, sumptuous costuming, and not too shabby music; the attention to detail that went into things was phenomenal, and I did feel like I was getting what I'd paid for.

But yeah, I still think the bad press of opera is what's dogging it. And there's so much there if you look. Opera. It's the new country. And you watch: someday, alt.opera will rise up, and it'll wipe those goddamned "here's a lot of arias with no context" best-ofs off the fucking planet.

Fuck. All mixed up - was going to reedit but have to surrender the phone line now. More later, maybe.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
00:38 / 14.09.02
I don't enjoy Mozart's operatic work, it sounds very edgy, I like it when opera is so immensely beautiful that it makes me cry... just like in Pretty Woman (although she was listening to something very ugly I recall and it made me wonder why). From the aspect of staging, props and character work I go for Puccini and that's probably the reason why I enjoy that particular composer. It's an all out show but the music is just so emotional, it requires such a range in a singer, particularly the lead soprano.

For those of you who remember nessun dorma (world cup, Pavarotti...) that's from Puccini's Turandot. They ruined it. On stage it makes me sob buckets.
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
00:41 / 14.09.02
The opera scene from "The Fifth Element"
 
 
Yagg
03:44 / 14.09.02
I had neighbors who played shit music at disgustingly loud volume every Sunday morning when I was trying to sleep in. One day I tuned in the local public radio station, found they were broadcasting some opera or other. I blasted it at maximum volume in retaliation, thinking "I'll show YOU shit music!" It became a regular thing. They'd crank their shit up, I'd fire back the weekly opera broadcast.

Predictably, after a few weeks, I looked forward to it. I tried to use it as a weapon, and instead realized what a great musical artform it is.

Eventually I moved out of that shitpile of a building, though.
 
 
Saint Keggers
05:46 / 14.09.02
Does anyone know the name of the opera they held in Britain I think it was something like 16 hrs long, had intermissions, dinners...It had to something to do with mythology, either greek or roman. I cant recall the name as I only caught the making of it documentary on television as I was falling asleep.
 
 
The Strobe
07:49 / 14.09.02
Oh yes. I'd forgotten G&S, who I know pretty well, through parents and grandfather (who used to sing with a local G&S company). G&S rock; Pirates is lovely, but I have a real soft spot for the Gondoliers and Mikado, partly because they were the first two I saw on stage, and also because, well, they're fab.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:15 / 14.09.02
The Gondoliers really is fantastic - dig the "if we ever ever ever get back to Spain" bit, especially, and I have an especially soft spot for Patience too, because of its Wilde-baiting foppishness. I also think that you tend to develop a fondness for the opera/operetta you see first up.

Janina: that was a bit from La Traviata in Pretty Woman. also, I think the staging part of a production is very much on the shoulders of the director/designers; could your view of particular composers' work be more about the design ethic at work in how their operas have been produced?
 
 
Cavatina
13:37 / 14.09.02
I admit unashamedly to enjoying most opera very much, and I'm also very keen on G & S. However, because tickets are so expensive, I've been to nothing since splurging on the magnificent production of Parsifal here last September, and I'm very much looking forward to Don Giovanni at the end of next month, though of the Mozart operas Die Zauberflote is still my favourite.

Thinking about your perception of Mozart's operatic music as 'very edgy', Janina, I wonder whether this is not prompted by its stylistic diversity - ? In Zauberflote, for example, you've got a style change with almost every change of key - from charming little folkish (Papageno)songs to glittering Italian (Queen of the Night) style arias, melodramatic buffo pieces, powerful choruses, solemn marches and invocation and so on. In fact, the different styles of music given to each character function a bit like Leitmotive, to give insight into the ideas represented. Regardless, I think the work still has unity - it begins and ends in E flat major, the Masonic key that Rothkoid mentions; and in fact it's the intensity of the Masonic chords and other melancholy phrases that gives the music the overall unifying 'inwardness' that carries it beyond the lighthearted Singspiel genre to realize the ideals more clumsily shaped by Schikaneder's libretto.

But I do agree with you about the exquisiteness of some operatic arias. "Ebben? Ne andro lontano" from Cantalini's La Wally, for example, never fails to overwhelm me.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:15 / 14.09.02
Well there's often a Japanese style set design for Puccini because of the setting so I usually appreciate it whoever the director/designer may be. I love that particular period of Japanese design: the kimono's in particular.
 
 
that
17:34 / 14.09.02
Of course...Diamanda Galas was classically trained as an opera singer... which makes it very cool.
 
 
videodrome
02:18 / 15.09.02
Inspired by this thread, I found myself in the opera section of the shop this evening. Came out with Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle, the Decca Legends issue. Sounds good so far.
 
  
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