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Friday the 13th

 
 
solid~liquid onwards
08:27 / 13.09.02
...well someone had to start it.

im just curious about the origions of why this day is considered unlucky (im sure it has nothing to do with me bein born on friday the 13th) anyone, doing any magickal practices, because today is friday the 13th, or anyone avoiding it?
 
 
grant
16:24 / 13.09.02
I've heard it goes back to Christ (supposedly crucified on a Friday, betrayed by the 13th apostle), but I've also heard it goes back earlier, to Norse myths of Balder, killed by Loki - the 13th guest at a banquet.
 
 
paw
17:42 / 13.09.02
um, i might be totally wrong, but i thought fri the 13th got it's significance because it was the day the knight templars were nearly wiped out by order of the pope centuries ago
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
18:19 / 13.09.02
13 is a taboo number for numerological reasons. Twelve being the number of metaphoric elements in all sorts of apparently unrelated systems (I don't know why that is), thirteen is the number of what can't be represented by the system -- Fate or God or whatever -- acknowledging the limits of the system, sort of. It goes from sacred taboo to unlucky taboo when the systems supporting the taboo are forgotten about but the taboo remains. Friday the 13th is special because, if month starts on Sunday, God's day in Christian Europe, then the 13th day after that is doubly sacred. Friday's associated with Freya, right? So maybe it's a day when the Goddess is empowered. The taboo on 13 predates Christ & the Templars, though, as well as the Norse -- the Hellenes had it, for instance. Zeus would not allow for 13 gods on Olympus -- when Herakles was admitted someone had to step down. Hestia? Hecate? One of the women.
 
 
kagemaru
19:21 / 13.09.02
Twelve is a good number to bring to the market - a dozen eggs, a dozen potatoes...
You can sell the dozen, or two half dozens.
When you get thirteen eggs, it means you'll end up with one odd egg - how do you sell that?
Either you bundle it with the dozen, or you eat it yourself - both ways, it's a wasted egg (or potato, tomato, whatever)

It's the same with seventeen (which is considered unlucky in some areas) - you are one short from having an easily marketable dozen and a half.

So the farmer on his way to the market counts the items in his basket and goes: "... ten... eleven.... twelve... thirteen! Ach, what a lousy luck!"
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
20:15 / 13.09.02
Also, our original counting system used to go to 12. Hence no eleventeen, twelveteen,...

No,really.
 
 
reFLUX
20:15 / 13.09.02
so basically it's all just superstitious shit then.
 
 
Sirhan Sirhan Solo
20:50 / 13.09.02
Regarding Kagemaru's comment on 13 and 17, couldn't the same be said of any prime number?
I read somewhere that 13 is "unlucky" because 12 is perfect, thus making 13 perfection with an added superfluous element.
I could be wrong, however, and I prefer to believe Qalyn's "sacred taboo" theory.
 
 
Anathema
22:57 / 13.09.02
Most consistant explaination I've seen for it is as someone mentioned previously in regards to the Knights Templar and the burning at the stake of Jacques de Molay and his subsequent cursing of his judges. There is a brief essay about is here.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
09:28 / 14.09.02
ive gathered lots of knowldge along the way, but the answer is no more clearer ^_^

although im not so sure about the eggs/potatoes thing... i wouldnt complain if i had an extra egg or potato than expcted.... id eat t raw!

"perfection with an added superfluous element." ... sounds just like me

thanks dudes
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:57 / 14.09.02
I got the sacred taboo thing from Frazier's "the Golden Bough" & Graves's "The White Goddess".

Anathema, the taboo on 13 is waaay older than Jaques de Molay.
 
 
—| x |—
19:14 / 14.09.02
Allow me a moment to play with this, if you will.

Twelve being the number of metaphoric elements in all sorts of apparently unrelated systems (I don't know why that is), thirteen is the number of what can't be represented by the system

If we look at to the Tarot archetypes for a possible decoding, then here we have 12 as the Hanged Man. What is the significance of this archetype? Well, in part, it is the spirit in the flesh. It is the will of the life to be bound in a material form. Hence, we do have a “metaphoric element” in that the spirit, soul, or whatever, isn’t something that can be verified to exist or not. In a sense, we can see that the old dichotomy of {mind, matter} arises immediately in this light: in the Hanged Man we have two unrelated systems: the world of the material, the flesh, in composition or union, with the world of the spirit, the divine. Moreover, in a modernist sense, the self is seen as standing in opposition to the world—as outside it. We have the system of self seen as opposed or unrelated to the system of the world: the fallacy of thinking there is an objective stance from which we can evaluate and analyze the world. The Hanged Man appears to be associated with these sorts of division being reconciled. In arcanum 12 we see the willing sacrifice of the spirit to be conjoined with the material world. This sacrifice is to serve the purpose of the higher Self, which is bound in experience through forgetful self-referencing.

Thirteen, in the Tarot, is Death. Certainly unlucky, but only because Death is misunderstood and, more importantly, leads to the unknown and the unknowable (from the perspective of this life). But Death is more akin with a transformation—a movement from one state to another, and not so much with a finality. In this sense, 13 becomes the harvest of the sacrifice in 12: the recognition of the willful transformation from mere potential experience or possible existence to that of an actual existence. Thus, if the system is the spirit in the flesh, the self in conjunction with the world, “the metaphoric element in…unrelated systems,” then Death—transformation—can’t be represented by the system because it moves into a new system, a system that cannot be foreseen, fathomed, or predicted from the previous structure.

There is an importance here in seeing how this 13 would keep its ties to 12. In other words, the arising system, the system that is derived from transformation, is not a destruction of the old system, but an expansion of it. What was there in 12 is present in 13, but in 13 we have a larger system, a greater expanse. Why this might be seen as unlucky is that the transit from 12 to 13 requires will, courage—the things that are hardest to muster in light of inertia and status quo. We have to want to be sacrificed, we have to want to be transformed, we have to accept that we can become something greater than that which we are: no easy task for most people. Much easier to stay in a settled world of complacency than to shake the word, restructure the Self, and step into the unknown. Interesting to note how the myths and stories referred to in above posts might reflect the importance of Death: Jesus, in his betrayal by the thirteenth apostle is transformed from The Son of God into the Holy Spirit. He moves from one world into the next and this hinges on the significance of 13.

The taboo of 13 might arise as a result of power and authority; that is, if 13 is transformation which moves outside of the status quo, then it is likely outside the boundaries of the authoritative structure in which the transformation occurs. Thus, we have the double whammy of transformation as taking the being transformed from a knowable state into the unknown, and as taking the being from within an accepted way of living into a way of life that might be outside accepted cultural/societal values.

A further thing to note is that 12, the Hanged Man, has as its corresponding Hebrew letter Mem--water. In the binding of spirit in flesh the personal self is created—the ego. The water is that which washes away the smaller conception of self, which dissolves the ego, and thus, allows for the transformation from one state of being into the next state of being. What is important to note, perhaps, is that this is something that we can do over and over and over: the process of an expanded self never ends because self referencing leads to an infinite regress. This, like the unknown is not to be feared or scoffed at as absurd; rather, the infinite regress of self allows for an ever expanding sense of novelty as ego dissolves, is remade, dissolves, is remade,…and on. This seems to be one of the important elements of (M)magic/kal work and is seen most clearly in Alchemic pursuits and shamanic vision quests: the ability of the practitioner to tear him or her self apart and remake him or her self in a better way.

12 + 13 = 1 (mod 3)
 
 
—| x |—
19:19 / 14.09.02
An interesting synchronicity is that my word count in the above post tells me there are 888 words, and Rehmus tells me that 888 is metamorphosis.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
13:46 / 15.09.02
thanks mod, dude

looks like its hanges all round... damm, i feel pretty good about being born on friday the 13th now (wrestles with ego somehwat...ego wins, as usual) oh yeah!

mod, i bow down and worship your superior knowledge (and spare time)!
 
 
illmatic
07:24 / 16.09.02
I thought it was a calender based thing- with 13 the "old" calender based on 13 lunar months and 12 based on the solar calender of 12, with "13" picking up all the negative associations of the moon and witchcraft, the feminine etc. - don't know how true this is. If you're into the idea, you could have a look a the Indian calender which is still lunar, I believe.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:19 / 16.09.02
so basically it's all just superstitious shit then.

Metaphoric shit, maybe. Superstition is usually based on something valid, if outmoded.

Mod provides an excellent illustration of the 13 taboo using tarot. There are also the twelve disciples (Christ being the 13th), Rolf's twelve berserkers, the twelve peers of Roland, twelve tribes of Israel, and so on. Graves has these all arising from the Celtic Ogham alphabet based on trees, which is linked to a calendar starting in midsummer -- but I lent The White Goddess out some time ago and can't quote it directly. It's a bit of a stretch.

Illmatic, most calendars are lunar -- the Hebrew calendar is, too -- But i can never get my head around the functional difference. It's possible that these things all rise from some mathematical coincidence and are equally valid.
 
 
grant
19:07 / 16.09.02
With a solar calendar, the solstices and equinoxes fall on the same days every year, but the full moons float around on the calendar. With a lunar calendar, the full moons are always on the same days, but the equinoxes and solstices (and thus the beginnings of the seasons) float around to different days.

I think.
 
 
cusm
01:22 / 17.09.02
28 * 13 = 364

Yea, the lunar calander thing does hold water. I heard that reasoning as well that 13 was considered unlucky due to association with witchcraft, but that part is harder to verify than the calander bit.
 
  
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