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I just wanted to say a short something about september 11th that you may not like....

 
 
Jane Doe X
19:18 / 11.09.02
People died and im sorry about that. But on principle I never do a minutes silence because i believe that everyone's equal and everyone deserves the same respect, so in theory i'd give everyone the same amount of respect and hold a minutes silence for everyone that died and then spend an eternity in silence. It sounds illogical, but tragedies go on in the world everyday and it seems that only the ones that occur in the western world are deemed important enough for world wide grief. Nobody held a minutes silence for the massacres in Kosovo or South Africa. I just feel that the grief of the united states is more important because they are a super power. Should it be this way?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:56 / 11.09.02
I don't know what that lady who does the column about manners and etiquette would say, but I would think that the way you grieve for the dead is your buisness alone. Maybe it's a tad rude to ignore someone's request to join them in grieving, but as long as you explain why you declined, no one should complain.
 
 
w1rebaby
20:02 / 11.09.02
I don't think it's even rude. As long as you're not, you know, rude about it. Saying "no thank you"... that's not rude. Saying "fuck off you bunch of bandwagonning sheep" and making fart noises all the way through would probably count as a little insensitive though.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
20:03 / 11.09.02
Yeah, just a little.
 
 
LDones
20:31 / 11.09.02
Honoring a minute of silence is just grieving with your neighbors and those that you identify with. If you don't identify, then there's no shame in not remaining silent. I can't speak for the international community, or it's level of grief-identification with the whole event, save that it's an enormous, very in-one's-face spectacle of violence, so the awareness level is acute.

I can't speak for any place but the US, and even being that broad is dangerously presumptuous of me, but I think the simple fact of the matter for those in the States is that the level of ironic distance from these deaths, and that particular violent, hateful, fearful act, is pretty drastically thin.

I was in New York that morning last year, and I had been in the towers the afternoon before. My first time in New York, so we were being a bit touristy, we have reams of photos of the place and us on the floor below the Observation Deck. (It had been raining that morning and did again in the afternoon, so the top Deck was closed).

After effectively watching the South Tower go down from our cab trying to get to JFK, not knowing it had been closed down, still not really grasping the ramifications of what had gone down, my life changed permanently. I have zero level of ironic distance from an event like that, and it still hurts running through that 24-hour period and the week in Queens and Manhattan afterward - walking past Missing Persons walls, spending time with crowds of terrified people in Washington Square, going to bars and seeing people just cuddling on couches to feel better for a moment, and everybody working together to take care of one another.

My point is that Americans had never had something like this happen to them, never really been so educated on a large scale of what a tragedy like this entails. It's very real and very scary, surely, and the ability to be objective about it, I think, is lessened dramatically for anyone who identifies strongly with this country, or even more so, with New York. I'm inclined to think that sorrow comes with understanding of any tragedy, and understanding comes through education. It's more than a fucking shame that Americans are typically very uneducated of tragedy elsewhere in the world, but as long as it remains unreal to the majority of people here, its not going to strike a deep or personal chord.

I think it’s unfortunately very easy to get hypocritical in that position, and to unconsciously value one’s own suffering over the suffering of others elsewhere in the world. Is it wrong to ignore or even unconsciously devalue human suffering on any scale simply because it isn't right in front of you? Absolutely. But I'd still be very quick to tell anybody not to devalue the grief of people who are stricken by this.

Bear in mind, I'm not speaking politically in any capacity, I'm just talking about people. The media's made the World Trade Center attacks a household name for people the world over, reduced to a number/buzzword to filter more easily into the mass consciousness. So no, Western grief isn't more important than any other, it's just louder and more obvious, with everything that entails.

Sorry for the rant…
 
 
gridley
21:02 / 11.09.02
We had a planned three minute moment of silence at the office this morning that went on for OVER TEN MINUTES. I was going insane by minute five, but nobody wanted to be the one to break the silence and thus prove they cared the least. Needless to say, everyone was quite relieved when the Fed-Ex guy came and yelled to me, "Yo, big dog, how you been?"
 
 
Ganesh
21:22 / 11.09.02
I'm with Alpha; also, it was perhaps the most media-saturated massacre of all time - which perhaps served to etch it especially indelibly upon the world's collective unconsciousness. It isn't more "important" than other human tragedies but, in many ways, I think it may prove to be more psychically scarring than most.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
21:34 / 11.09.02
Ganesh said something similar to what I've been thinking on my way home. The faked-up international culture of TV/movies/music/internet is still US-dominated. American perspectives are likely to be the first ones out & the loudest, with the most staying power. It helped that it was such a remarkable image, caught on video and broadcast in real time. Ultimately, the Western world is more "important" because it controls the means of communication, at least with itself, and arguably with the rest of the world. Am I being clear?

I think it is rude to yak away when someone else is observing their moment, but somethimes you have to be rude, I guess. I think it's bullshit, too, but not out of any compassion for the downtrodden (not that that's a bad thing). I think it's disgraceful, and entirely typical, that certain people will exploit absolutely anything for personal gain, and I think things like 'moments of silence' are little rituals of obedience. But I also don't want to cause undue pain to those around me, so I kept my trap shut.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:40 / 11.09.02
So you take the silence, and you subvert it. You use that moment to think about all the other dead folks before and since, to meditate, pray for peace, whatever floats your boat.

You own your mind. You own the stuff that goes down in the dark behind your closed eyes.

I exist within that silence, most of my life. Sometimes I feel it surging down my throat, choking me. I get to talk sometimes, in places like this; but even here I take a risk when I talk about what's really on my mind. So do you. All of you.

Wear a fucking hat.
 
 
schwantz
22:29 / 11.09.02
No lack of ironic distance here on Barbelith, I see... Only here can I find VIOLENT reactions to a moment of silence.

[adopts self-righteous, over-the-top tone of aggressive Barbelith poster]

At least the victims didn't have to put up with this moment of silence.

or

This moment of silence has made me understand how the victims felt.

or

One more "moment of silence" and _I'M_ going to try and acquire weapons of mass destruction.

[self-righteous, over-the-top tone of aggressive Barbelith poster off]

Relax, people.
 
 
Ganesh
22:36 / 11.09.02
You honestly think this is a "VIOLENT" reaction? You need to read a little more widely, I think; so far, this is a fairly measured online response...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:39 / 11.09.02
I think a moment of silence, of any length, is a fine and good thing. To be compelled by silence to think, as Mordant says, of anything that grieves you or might grieve others might well be a useful and good thing.

Case in point. A few days ago was the birthday of somebody I cared very much about who did not live to see the towers fall. Her death is something I might think about in a minute of silence on the 11th.

On September 11th, President Allende of Chile was deposed by a group of generals the most enthusiastic of whose actions led to the reasonably provable death of, by a quirk of statistical irony, just over 3000 people. Maybe it is worth giving that a moment's thought as well.

Whatever works, really.
 
 
Ganesh
22:43 / 11.09.02
I thought of Diana, the Queen Mother, Tupac and Michael Elphick. They were my best friends.

(Apologies for 'facetiousness spike' there...)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:09 / 11.09.02
As if we'd forgive your failure to mention England's rose Jill Dando...
 
 
Ganesh
23:11 / 11.09.02
She was more of an acquaintance, really.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:34 / 11.09.02
Boon? Dead?
Uncle 'Arry? Dead?
And he looked so well.
 
 
Ganesh
23:37 / 11.09.02
He didn't, actually. He lived in Willesden Green, and the last couple of times I saw him out and about, he looked like shit. Fishing stuff out of bins, that sort of thing.

But shhh! Enjoy the silence...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:43 / 11.09.02
Was sarcasm, no? He looked like he'd been bathing in olive oil.
 
 
The Strobe
07:43 / 12.09.02
I think the comment about media-saturation was right. Because I have this question: even if I do observe the minute's silence, or commemorate it in my own way, or at least am respectful and thoughtful about the moment - as if I hadn't been already: am I a bad person for avoiding the media yesterday?

I mean, I read the paper, because that was the day before's news. But I know there will have been LOTS of people with the TV jammed on - not just for the commeoration service, but also awaiting news of any anniversary-retaliations.

Which I find a little morbid. But at the same time, feel it was probably unavoidable. It just seems... strange, that you can pay attention to the world for a day, which many people did, and forget about so much of it for so much of the time. Terrorism doesn't deal in anniversaries and predictability. It's unpredicatble. And so if anything like this ever happens again, and the repeat of Neighbours is cut short by some dreadful newsflash, people will become glued to the media and grieve again.

But just not as much the stuff that wasn't worth interrupting our regularly scheduled broadcast for.
 
  
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