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celebrities and the war

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10:20 / 17.01.02

so: celebrities on the new new world order.

obviously, there were plenty of understandable (though artistically questionable) 'tributes' etc - geri performing to the troops, the NY sympathon, mccartney's excruciating 'freedom'...

meanwhile, neil young was censured for playing 'imagine', because it was seen as being inappropriately pacifist, warren beatty apparently got the shit heckled out of him for daring to suggest the bombing campaign might not be the way to go, kym hear'say allegedly quit the band rather than milk the military cheerleader publicity...

what else? i know there was apparently a special edition of 'the west wing'... various novelists have written articles expressing their point of view...

in our celeb-obsessed culture, what messages are the role models sending out?

pointless and uncalled for

11:12 / 17.01.02

Mixed ones, very mixed.

I'm pretty sure Charlton Heston crapped his pants when he heard the news about going to war, or that may be the incontinence.

17:47 / 17.01.02

Adam Ant's gone 'Colonel Kurtz' on us...

17:51 / 17.01.02

Charlotte Church said that New Yorkers have to "get over" what happened. That's right, Charlotte Church. Whoever she is.

18:45 / 17.01.02

Celebrities Are Shallow - Shock Report!

19:49 / 17.01.02

Hmmm...my memory is a little hazy here (possibly due to the copious quantities of cocodimol in my current cough mixture) but wasn't there a recent 'God Bless America' film spliced - much like Frankenstein's creation I imagine - together from bits of older films celebrating everything it was to be American? If I'm right (which could well be a distant possibility) the film was paid for by celebrities who wanted to show that they were 'doing their bit' for the shattered nation.

[ 17-01-2002: Message edited by: Tezcatlipoka ]

[ 17-01-2002: Message edited by: Tezcatlipoka ]

20:45 / 17.01.02

Celebrities as role models?
I pay these clowns (the ones listed) to entertain me, not teach me how to think or teach me new or better moral values.
They can spout whatever crap their marketeers/agents/press agents tell them: I pay money for them to distract/humor/thrill me.

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08:44 / 18.01.02

maybe i should change the title of the thread - what i wanted, really was twofold:

1: a big list of celebs and their sickeningly cynical or surprisingly enlightened attitudes re:war on terror...

2: and, more importantly, a debate on how the repercussions of 911 have played out (thus far) in pop culture. the way in which - again, to some degree, understandably - a whole host of formerly apolitical, highly visible cultural figures have moved into positions of wilful patriotism.

the way there's almost been a visible shift that matches the political line, with many stars jumping at the chance to parrot the doctrines of an unashamedly conservative govt.

i also get the impression, that being showbiz types, these are people that wouldn't support his domestic policies... and not necessarily natural allies...

i'm not looking to the celebrities for any intellectual profundity or moral leadership. but i think it's amazing how complete has been their shoulder-to-shoulder attitude to the bombing campaign etc.

it could be said, in this, they're only mirroring (though to an exaggerated extent) the fiures amongst the general populace - but i'm not sure we're seeing their actual opinions here. i don't think most of them made the decision to offer support without the prompting of management. because management know that to do otherwise would be career suicide.

it's just weird to see how pop culture has become so completely corporate. seems like, in the past, the 'talent' was more likely to ba a live wire, a liberal, that had to be held in check.

now they're just the suit that fronts the show.

10:06 / 18.01.02

I was rather pleased with that guy from N'sync saying something in the line "I think we should try to find out why do they hate us", and "america is an arrogant nation".

Of course later he was pressed to re-estate that comment, but it felt sooo good for a while...

12:37 / 18.01.02

Perhaps the funniest moment I've seen so far is when Richard Gere was making a speech at the benefit for the NYPD and FDNY and tried to convince them that pacifism was the way to go. A noble idea, except that he came off as a condescending, arrogant, Hollywood fuck instead of someone concerned for people's welfare. He was roundly booed and jeered. It was beautiful

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:44 / 18.01.02

Someone who dares to go against the dominant mentality and suggests a peaceful solution getting booed and jeered is beautiful?

Whatever.

13:04 / 18.01.02

No. Someone who comes off as arrogant and cops a holier-than-thou attitude should be booed. There's a difference between Ghandi and MLK, who never appeared smug and condescending and being Mr. Gere. I find nothing inheritantly admirable in going against the dominant mentality. After all, that's what murderers do too.

13:22 / 18.01.02

I didn't see his speech, so I can't tell if he was being arrogant or not, but it seems to me that in this case going against the mentality of the majority IT IS an act of bravery and should be applauded.
This whole situation just has SCAM printed all over it.
"there is no justice like mob justice" et al.
As someone said already: Whatever.

13:26 / 18.01.02

What if he did it in an egotistical act to be seen as brave or "different"? Or what if he did it to get press coverage? Would it still be brave then? Motivation must be considered, which is why I do not necessarily admire it. I question how altruistic his motives were.

13:33 / 18.01.02

Sorry, didn't mean to say "brave" in the first sentence. I jumped the gun a bit there.

13:38 / 18.01.02

Yes, but you can't tell the difference, can you? (unless Mr. Gere is that a bad actor).
Neither can I (as I said before, I didn't even watch his speech)
But if he was interested just in self-promotion, then he could have guaranteed that he would leave the place carried in the people's arms, if he had chosen to incite war and feelings of retaliation, because that's just what everybody wants to hear nowadays. I'm pretty sure an inflamated speech conclaming the nation to avenge the blood of it's sons would have been much more effective, if selfish self-promootion was the only thing he was interested in.

Once again, i didn't watch the thing. Can't judge about what happened there, and am just trying to see all sides of the issue.

14:31 / 18.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Marquis de Jade:
I was rather pleased with that guy from N'sync saying something in the line "I think we should try to find out why do they hate us", and "america is an arrogant nation".

Of course later he was pressed to re-estate that comment, but it felt sooo good for a while...

See, what's most worrying 'bout 9/11's effect on pop culture is that someone had to retract what sounds like a perfectly reasonable and obvious statement..

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

06:35 / 19.01.02

As said the divine Marquis, I didn't see the speech either, but...
okay, I've never really been a big fan of ol' Mr Gere. But giving a speech promoting pacifism when the viewing (and, more importantly, PAYING) public are all baying for blood probably wasn't a cynical career move. (Unless he was trying to distract attention from the still-showbiz-legend hamster story.)
And (again, I'm speculating here, cos I didn't see it) if he came across as egotistical and arrogant, maybe he just IS egotistical and arrogant. Being the two does not necessarily mean that you can't on occasion GENUINELY hold laudable views, surely. We've all met twats on demos who agreed with us but were still, in the final analysis, twats.
Didn't see it. Sorry.
But... back to the wider celebs/war thang, if Geri Halliwell's Vera Lynn, then I'm fuckin'... I dunno, Roger de Courcey or something.
I WAS disappointed in Bobby Gillespie (for whom I've always had something of a soft spot), though, having attracted flak for singing "bomb the Pentagon" before 9/11 and then NOT TALKING ABOUT IT after to avoid controversy... (unless he has... any links to such an occurrence would be greatly appreciated). Right and wrong aside, if you have an opinion, don't back off when it gets unpopular.
Likewise (and it kills me to say this)- why hasn't Alec Empire had anything to say on the subject?
Unfortunately, I missed Conflict's (yes, I likely dodgy old punk bands... so fucking sue me) gig a couple of weeks back, but I can bet Colin had his opinion all fired up and ready to roll.

[ 19-01-2002: Message edited by: Moominstoat ]

12:35 / 19.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Moominstoat:

I WAS disappointed in Bobby Gillespie (for whom I've always had something of a soft spot), though, having attracted flak for singing "bomb the Pentagon" before 9/11 and then NOT TALKING ABOUT IT after to avoid controversy... (unless he has... any links to such an occurrence would be greatly appreciated).

I live next door to a big-time Primal Scream fan, and he says that they've announced they're going to stick to their guns and release 'Bomb the Pentagon' as their comeback single.

cool or terminally misguided? you decide..

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

22:24 / 19.01.02

I think the biggest thing is how people were telling us what we would like in our entertainment after 9/11.

"Irony is dead, entertainment post 9/11" was in so many magazines, I swear there was a press release.

I'm starting to think that as horrible as it was, the aftermath will stay with us about as long as the "war" against Iraq. And will have the same reprecussions in a decade.

13:37 / 21.01.02

As a comedian (in NY, of all places) observed :
“when you hear about the reaction of people like N’Sync to what happened, you kinda wonder.
‘Well,’ they say, ‘when you hear what happened, well, it makes what you do feel kind of insignificant…’
Newsflash ! You ARE insignificant ! You should feel that way EVERY SINGLE DAY !”

DBC

16:46 / 21.01.02

I saw Mark Thomas live, after the 'event' and he bowled me over with the emotion contained in his performance. It took me two days to process the energy of that night.
It stopped being a politically charged comedy stage show, and became a man's channel to express the villainy that goes unchecked, and at times supported by Western Governments. His main topic of the evening was the Turkish Dam project that threatens the lives of 500,000 Kurds. (Good Kurds/Bad Kurds as the government puts it)
Beyond that came the revelation that the No Fly Zone over Iraq was lifted for one night, and on that night Turkish planes took off laden with bombs, returning unladen. (remember kids Good Kurds/Bad Kurds)
Then came the obvious but well 'suggested' at comments regarding 'foreign policy', 'Act of War' and 'undisclosed interests'.

Note: The campaign to end the Dam project was successful, until the US/Coalition offered to return to the project in return for access to airspace. I believe this didn't stop Belfour Beaty from dropping the contract.

Ridley Scott, propoganda maker. Black Hawk Down could not have come out at a more 'interesting' time. I will be personally boycotting it and openly proclaiming its Pro-Military stance. (I know, I know, I'm one person, but an idealist one person)

Behind Enemy Lines is another slap in my face.

18:24 / 21.01.02

I don't know if Arundahti Roy counts as a celebrity, or if her roll vs. ENRON! counts as "post911 celebrities and the war (although her September/October articles on the war, here, are good.

She's a "celeb" of sorts who uses her cultural power to really do something. I think that's cool.

The most terrifying connection between Hollywood/Madison Ave. and the war is 1) the secret meeting between Bush's people and Hollywood producers to shore up Hollywood's part in the war effort and 2) the fact that the military have hired a consulting firm to promote their image of the war.

After all, who needs Hollywood scriptwriters when you've got the interesting fictions created by Rumsfeld, Ashworth, Ari Fleischer, etc....

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: alas ]

05:57 / 22.01.02

i'm surprised we've not heard rem's michael stipe on this. he's not usually one to keep his mouth shut on political matters, and used to be involved in environmental politics in athens, ga.

unless i've missed something?

The Return Of Rothkoid

07:55 / 22.01.02

Just quickly on the Gere thing: as far as I can recall, he's been into Buddhism in a big way for years now, and has spoken about peaceful solutions to problems for a couple of years now - particularly in relation to solving the problems in Tibet. With that in mind, I don't think it was an egotistical move; it's one that fits in with most of his public appearances so far. Yeah, he's a celebrity and an actor, and as such probably gets taken much less seriously than a writer-celebrity - but I just think that there's less personal interest and more genuine feeling in the speech he made.

Bear in mind that I, too, didn't see it. But I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, I guess.

NY Times story on Gere

13:44 / 22.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Will 'it work' Wright:

Ridley Scott, propoganda maker. Black Hawk Down could not have come out at a more 'interesting' time. I will be personally boycotting it and openly proclaiming its Pro-Military stance. (I know, I know, I'm one person, but an idealist one person)

me too, so that makes two people.

looks like the kind of bullshit film I'd have hated anyway, though.

Bladerunner to this? what gives..

20:35 / 22.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:
Bladerunner to this? what gives..

Money, Fame, Power... tends to soften brains and spines all too often.

James Cameron went from Aliens and T2 to 'Tit'anic, so maybe its a pattern...

09:42 / 23.01.02

people, the entirity of the movie did NOT get pounded out in five months...think about it. At very least, it had to have been greenlighted and funded before 9/11. And apparently it's pretty accurate about how horrible war is, violence, etc.
No doubt, though, the film will benefit in a cold-blooded economic sense from 9/11 and the resultant "yeah, America!" backlash.
But at least you can feel alright about Ridley Scott.