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Carl Jung, Alchemy and Gnosticism: Seven Sermons of the Dead

 
 
Seth
12:53 / 10.09.02
I'm a bit of a newcomer to alchemy. I knew nothing more than most people until recently, when I read Carl Jung's essays in part four of the Routledge Classics edition of Dreams, entitled Individual Dream Symbolism in Relation to Alchemy. This served as an excellent introduction, but opened up a vast amount of questions, which have only increased since my dreams have started producing alchemical themes (my dream encouter with the prima materia is detailed in my post to the Magic Mirror thread).

It's only today that I've stumbled upon a reference to Jung's own gnostic/alchemical text, written under the pseudonym Basilides: Septem Sermones ad Mortuos. I've yet to start it, but I thought it would be fun to supplement my reading with a thread that touches on the subject. Jung amassed one of the largest collections of alchemical and gnostic texts in the world: it was one of his obsessions, and he drew all kinds of parallels between his research into the subject and his developing theories of psychology.

I've got tons of questions on the subject:

i) Is there anyone on the board who has researched alchemy? If so, are there any texts you would recommend? Are there any good collections of alchemical texts, with commentaries?

ii) Have any of you have read Seven Sermons to the Dead? It seems to contain the seeds of Jung's psychology, couched in pseudo-mystical language unlike anything else that he's written. What are your thoughts on the text, or on Jung's work in general (from the standpoint of both psychologist and as an authority on comparative religion and mythology - if one can draw a dividing line between the two)?

iii) What do people think of Jung's concept that alchemy and gnosticism formed a kind of unconscious to the institutional relgions that labelled such beliefs and preactises as heretical?

That's got to be enough to keep things going for now
 
 
6opow
05:38 / 11.09.02
iii) What do people think of Jung's concept that alchemy and gnosticism formed a kind of unconscious to the institutional relgions that labelled such beliefs and preactises as heretical?

Well, I can attempt a response at this question, but not from the stance of knowing exactly what Jung was talking about in this context, nor exactly what you are asking.

One of the things I have appreciated about Jung’s thought regarding institutionalized religion is how it can often become a barrier to promoting a personal religious experience. If I recall correctly, Jung felt that what often occurred in the case of an organized religion was that someone at some point in time, in some context, had some sort of revelatory, mystical, or otherwise transcendent contact with the ‘divine’. If the person who had this experience was moved to attempt to describe it to others, and if others were significantly affected by this person’s relation of the experience, then the budding of a new religious movement could now begin.

What occurs at this point is the codification of the details of the experience. Moreover, the personal religious experience of a single individual now becomes the paradigmatic focal point and touch stone for people who might want to recreate such an experience for themselves. However, as the codification becomes dogma and doctrine, and as the experience of one person becomes structured into a organization, we immediately get issues of power and authority. Who is it that understands what that original experience was really about? We get the rise of those who will now become the interpreters and mediators between the source of some other individual’s experience, and the everyday lives of ordinary people. That is, we get, in an organized religion, those who are, by their position in the power structure, allowed to read scripture (or such) in such a way that they are the ones who will interpret this record of the events of a single individual for other people. They become the ones who will lead the flock (so to speak).

Now, it seems to me that alchemy is the personal pursuit of an encounter with the divine. It is the seeking after Hermes’ Bird, the Philosopher’s Stone (and many other names), but this is nothing other than the understanding that the individual is right there with God in creating the world. As Joderowsky frames it in The Holy Mountain, it is turning your excrement into gold. In existentialist terms, it is deciding the meaning and direction of your life without fear or angst in the face of the idea that there is no meaning or direction. In a sense, the alchemical pursuit is the unification of self and other, especially in terms of the mundane with the divine, or the particular with the universal. This entire pursuit is one that must be carried out by the individual alone, and not something that can be given or learned from someone else. I think that in traditional alchemy it was the alchemist alone who would mix the ingredients in the alembic, and it would be the alchemist alone that would supervise, observe, and participate in the growing of Hermes’ Tree. It seems to me that the idea here, in more Jungian terms, is that it is the individual who must turn his or her shadows into light, or integrate the shadows of his or her being into a whole individual. While people might be able to give guidance and what not, the life of any person is entirely in that person’s hands (whether he or she can admit this or not).

While I am not particularly well versed in Gnosticism, if I recall, one of the driving ideas is that the world was created by an evil demiurge, and that the real God was so far removed from this world that he or she had no contact with us, nor we with him or her. So let us put this into the context of what I’ve been spinning out so far. Alchemy is the individual quest for unification with the divine, for participation in the creation and transformation of the world. Gnosticism seems at least partially correct so far as contact with the divine is not an everyday part of most people’s lives, and that contact with the divine appears very difficult or might be impossible. So, if we have organized religion arising out of an individual’s encounter with the divine, then the individualized encounter was something unique, difficult, and not likely to be duplicated. Thus, we see how there might be elements of alchemy and Gnosticism providing the origins of an organized religion in so far as the origins are founded in an individual’s experience. As the experience itself becomes lost in the religion’s codification and increasing rigidness of formalization, the original experience which shares these elements of the alchemical pursuit and certain ideas pertaining to Gnosticism does become like the unconscious underpinnings of the institutional tradition.

At least part of the reason that such beliefs and interests in things like alchemy and Gnostic ideas become viewed as heretical is because these ideas would or could serve to promote in the individual a unique and difficult encounter with the divine for that individual. Such an encounter will likely be counter to some or all of the codified ways of the institution, and so, would work to undermine or at least question the authority of those “higher up” in the power structure. If everyone could promote his or her own encounter with God, then what would be the need for a church (in the traditional sense)?

So, in a sense, I agree with Jung that the institutionalization of an individual’s religious experience often seems to prevent others from having their own encounter with the divine. Such an encounter must be based upon, and stem from, those things which become labeled as heretical under the authority of a power structure, and this structure, paradoxically, owes its existence to these same heretical experiences, which become the “unconscious” (in the sense of unrecognized or forgotten) of that institution.

Anyway, that’s my two bits.
 
 
illmatic
09:49 / 11.09.02
Exp: Haven't a great deal to contribute on the subject but thought I'd point out a link. I recently brought Seven Sermons, in an edition with commmentary called "The Gnostic Jung". I brought it because of re-reading an essay called "Spare Parts" by Lionel Snell (Real name of Ramsey Dukes, author of Thundersqueak and Sex Secrets of the Black Magicains Exposed). The essay is a commentary on Austin Spare's Book of Pleasure, and he considers the first sermon to be very similar to the BoP, with the emphasis on duality, with Jung's Pleomara an equivalent to Spare's Kia. I've only read the first sermon so far, being overloaded with books like usual. I found very interesting but I don't think I've got a deep enough understanding of it yet to comment (Not that any "understanding" or lack of, normally stops me posting).
 
 
Seth
12:47 / 11.09.02
Anyone who'd like to contribute can check out this link to Seven Sermons to the Dead.

Regarding the how alchemy/gnosticism relate to the unconscious of intitutional religion, one could easily broaden the playing field to all repressed and so-called occult material. Judeo-Christian religion has a deeply ingrained barrier to knowledge stemming from their creation myth. I remember having a Christian friend tell me that all knowledge that isn't from God is folly. This is one of my main current sticking points with the Bible: while I read it as mythology, I still don't like the message behind that particular myth.

The repression of heretical material does not fulfil the full aspect of the unconscious, however - the unconscious is not just constructed of repressed material. It also contains the controls for many of our autonomous processes. How does this help to fulfil Jung's description? And if the analogy holds true, then the major religions have a vital part to play as well. Consciousness is, after all, an essential part of our beings, something that has developed in us for obvious purposes. The more I think about this relationship, the more I think that it could be an interesting model for re-imagining religion as a positve force, so that everyone can have his personal experience of the numinous without fear of being branded unorthodox by the religion to which they are a part. Any ideas?
 
 
cusm
16:45 / 11.09.02
Wouldn't you be creating a religion that exists to tell people they don't need a religion to experience spirituality? As a religion's primary goal is to perpetuate itself, that might be a bit hard to keep alive.
 
 
Seth
20:16 / 11.09.02
a religion's primary goal is to perpetuate itself

If that were the primary purpose of religion, then it would be pretty pointless. You don't really think it's that simple, do you?

Religions are vast storehouses of many individual's spiritual experiences. They offer philosophical insight, wisdom, spiritual techniques, codes of conduct, detailed cosmologies, myths, social structures, to name but a few things. There is plenty of room for personal experience within many organised religions, up to certain boundaries. I'm just suggesting widening those boundaries (or scrapping them altogether), while keeping some of the obvious benefits.
 
 
Sirhan Sirhan Solo
02:19 / 12.09.02
Just thought I'd point out that Basilides was an actual Gnostic thinker, and many of the ideas presented in Jung's Seven Sermons to the Dead are just poetic rephrasings of the original Gnostic philosophy.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
07:39 / 12.09.02
a church's primary goal is to perpetuate itself

A religeon can have any number of goals but a church like most institutions has survival as its first priority.

Institutions are systems of sub-organisims
Humans are systems of sub-organisms
enlightenment can wait
survival can't
 
 
Seth
16:11 / 12.09.02
fenris: I've been in many churches where their primary goal was very different. It was much more about taking care of people, and quite often they supported charities and other churches when they technically couldn't afford to.
 
 
Seth
16:12 / 12.09.02
Is this too much of a side track to the thread?
 
 
Seth
12:42 / 15.09.02
I'm taking this just a sermon at a time. The first one left me reminded of M3's discussion of opposites and duality. If you're around, mate: have you read the Seven Sermons? I'd be interested to hear your angle.
 
 
Malaclypse2
16:59 / 15.09.02
Back to Jung and Alchemy for a minute...

I don't know if the work you're citing, exp, is from or similar to Jung's "Psychology and Alchemy", but if not I highly recommend it. It's a pretty thorough analysis comparing alchemical symbology with dream (and through dream to architypal) symbology.

I think it's important to notice that Jung's obsession with alchemy is probably related to his firm belief in psychology and psychoanalysis as a healing art. What was said earlier regarding the individual alchemist's quest to unite the internal and external falls very close the the quest of uniting the psyche and reconciling itself with the universe. Jung's observation of the universal symbology in both dream and alchemy is cast in a context almost of ignorance: modern dreamers don't always know what a symbol represents, but they use those symbols regardless. I've seen alchemy presented most often as a metaphor for the personal enlightenment of the alchemist, rather than the actual transformation of physical substance. Perhaps in this sense, alchemy as proto-psychology is what Jung was attempting to build on in his own lab.
 
 
paw
00:02 / 16.09.02
hi exp. heres some texts that i think will answer i)

-Frater Albertus 'The Alchemist's Handbook' 1987. Weiser Books, York beach, Maine.( this work gives the student specific knowledge on working successfully in the vegetable(herbal) Kingdom of nature,and sheds much light on modern day chemical laboratory operations)

- Frater Albertus, translator and compiler, 'The Golden Manuscripts' .Kessinger Publishing, LLC, Kila, Montana.

- Basillius Valentinus. 'The Triumphal Chariot of Antimony, with the commentary of Theodore Kerckringuis, A Doctor of medicine'. Translated by A.E Waite, Kessinger Publishing, LLC, Kila, Montana. (complete details on working in the mineral kingdom of nature are contained within.)

- A.E Waite, editor and compiler. 'The hermetic and alchemical writing of Paracelsus'. 1910 edition. kessinger publishing, LLC, Kila, Montana.( the 'great book' of alchemy , in both theory and practice. the essential one source for reference and working)

- Glauber, valentine, et al. 'A compendium of Alchemical Processes' kessinger publishing etc.( a very useful overview of processes directly involved in producing the Stone of the Wise)

- H. Nintzel, compiler. 'The Golden Chain of Homer'. 1723 edition. Restoration of Alchemical Manuscripts Society(RAMS) Richardson, texas (RAMS has ceased to exist. The rights to this and other alchemical mss were turned over to the Rosicrucian Order AMORC, San Jose, California. At this time, the manuscript in question is available from them)


hope that helps.
 
 
—| x |—
21:00 / 06.10.02
Attempting answers (complement: questions; combination: analysis) at ancient analogies.

First thoughts roll with sevens. Seven days in a week, seven classical planets (recall the celestial bodies which circled round a stationary earth), lucky seven, The Chariot, seven major stages in the alchemical process: calcination, putrefaction, solution, distillation, conjunction, sublimation, and philosophic congelation. And of course, our seven sermons.

The Chariot is driven by the light and the dark engines—it is the two forces which power the single vehicle. If we can extract anything from Sermo I, it is a discussion of opposites, but on several layers. We are told that “[t]he pairs of opposites are qualities of the plemora which are not, because each balance each.” Above this statement we are shown eleven pairs of opposites as examples of the binary pairings which negate one another in the plemora. We will now list these as eleven unordered pairs: {effective, ineffective}, {fullness, emptiness}, {living, dead}, {difference, sameness}, {light, dark}, {hot, cold}, {force, matter}, {time, space}, {good, evil}, {beautiful, ugly}, {one, many}. It is these and other pairings that exist as one and the same thing in the plemora; that is to say, they don’t exist in the plemora because it of itself has no qualities. So we get a further pairing of {existence, non-existence} (which may seem similar, but perhaps not readily identical to {living, dead}), as a non/quality (and here we note the ‘/’ is used to indicate, in this case, both the absence and presence of a quality) of the plemora. We might want to recognize that some of Jung’s work focuses on the pairing {internal, external} with respect to individual; in different words, Jung looks at connections between a person’s psyche and the manifest world.

E.E. Rehmus informs us that the plemora itself is the Gnostic divine being, it is the Universal Soul. He goes on to note that all aeons emanate from it. In a Jungian sense, we might consider this to be the archetype of the Self, and from the Self, we derive selves—personal aeons or the aeon of an individual—in the small. In Sermo I, we are told that the plemora is nothingness and fullness, and I recall from a lecture on Jung that he felt the Self was also empty, yet contained every other archetype and, in this sense, is full. We are also told, in the Sermo, many other contrary things about the plemora. In particular, we are informed that we are not part of the plemora, that “we are from the plemora infinitely removed,” because to be a distinct creature is to be distinct form the other, and in specific, distinct form this Universal Soul, and in this Soul there is no distinction; however, we are also told that “because we are parts of the plemora, the plemora is also in us.” So we see here a further pairing of {plemora, individual} or, perhaps more in a Jungian flavour {other, self}. What we can begin to see is that the plemora and the individual, or the self and the other, share an identity in so far as each pairing, in their non/existence in the plemora, become one thing—we’ve denoted this one object by borrowing from set theoretic notation: the unordered binary pairing {x, y}—which is nothing (but of course, everything = nothing). We can note a numeric example of this pair as framed in computational language: {1, 0}.

More important to notice is that “the plemora is both the beginning and end of the created beings,” and that “the plemora prevadeth altogether, yet hath created being no share thereof.” So here we have further pairings of contraries giving rise to our existence, and yet, canceling out that existence. We are told that the plemora has not created being, but yet, it is the end and beginning of existence, and that it is ubiquitous throughout existence. In the pattern of thought being followed, the plemora has {nothing, everything} to do with non/existence. Or in different, but unsurprising words, the plemora is all and it is nothing, that we are both the plemora itself and entirely distinct from it. It is in our being—our existence—that we continue and create distinction: “[w]hen we distinguish qualities of the plemora, we are speaking from the ground of our own distinctiveness and concerning our own distinctiveness.” Thus, since the plemora is empty and possesses no qualities, which is to say that it is full and posses all qualities, it is we who ‘pull out’ (‘push in’?) the pairings, and we who further divide the elements of the pairings—one here, and one over there. Put differently, it is we who create things, it is we who are the blind demiurges that shape the world, it is we who are the plemora. But if we weren’t blind and could see this in its entirety (its eternity), then this “would mean self-dissolution,” and “[t]herein both thinking and being cease.” Perhaps this would be the end (beginning?) of the Jungian goal: full integration of the shadow into the personality.

But still, there is nothing that “standeth [as] something fixed, or in some way established from the beginning.” So we speak of “qualities of the plemora which are not.” In other words, even our groupings of these pairs into units, and then into non/existence stemming from, into, through, an empty and full plemora is still creating distinction, it is still our thoughts about the plemora, and thus, “we have said nothing concerning the plemora.” “What is changeable” is the shifting thoughts and experiences by which, even in recognizing an x and its contrary y as an {x, y}, and then negating this in the plemora—which is ourselves, we generate the individual as “fixed and certain…or even as a quality itself.” “The plemora is rent in us”: there appears to be a necessity of something as it exists in the tension between everything and nothing, where {nothing, everything} is {infinite, eternal}, and yet, not that at all. In other words, we are thinking of a way, or a being told ways in which we can think of the unthinkable, by which we can ascertain something outside of our experience. Put differently still, the Sermo is both conditioning, reconditioning, and unconditioning our ways of thinking with respect to ultimate reality: it offers us tools that work on our neurosemantic interpretations of reality, and in effect, tells us at one and the same time that ultimate reality—here framed as the plemora—is both thinkable and unthinkable, knowable and unknowable, that from which our experience derives, but also that which has nothing to do with our experience. In short, it seems a jarring interplay between contraries which may serve to free the reader (or hearer) from his or her own private (or not so private) dogmas and fundamentalisms: nothing is true, everything is possible (?).

I would like to note that there is further binary pairings which can be built from basic units of pairs (this again borrows from set theory). We can see that what is asserted about the plemora can be modeled in the following way: {{plemora, {x, y}}, {not plemora, {x, y}}}. This pairing might shed some light on the “deep structure” of the first Sermo: the plemora is full of all possible binary pairings where these pairings are self-negating (balance each other out—cancel or annul one and other), and the plemora has nothing to do with any possible binary pairings. In a yet larger scope we might construct the following binary pairing: {{{plemora, individual}, {x, y}}, {{not plemora, individual}, {x, y}}}, or perhaps some mixture thereof.

To turn briefly to the closing remarks of the opening Sermo, which concern “the striving after your own being.” Which appears to concern the resolution or dissolution of apparent opposites into complementary unities with respect to the identification of self with other, or with the plemora and the individual. It is suggested that the only real striving is that after our self, which I think Jung would agree with: we are, through our being in the world, seeking after that which we are, which, I think, might be seen as a manifestation of Self. What appears to be asserted is that it is our very thoughts and thought processes which move us a step away from being in what might be seen as purely experiential; that is, it is thought which serves to divide the pairings of complements into pairings of opposites, and this division is what separates self from other (leading, in heightened or more “crystalized” form to acute alienation), which in turn places us a step removed from the “isness” of unanalyzed experience. In different words, our interpretations are simply partial representations which further increase distinction, and the uninterpreted is the undifferentiated reality. In coming to “the right goal by virtue of [our] own being,” we might come to the identification of self with other or come to know the unknowable not through analysis or thought, but by the absence of these. In closing, I’d suggest that Sermo I is linked to the first step of alchemy, calcination, where we burn (or transform) the black into the white.

Variables Vibrate Vicariously.
 
 
seashell
14:24 / 05.03.04
At the risk of sounding like a total layman...I must say that it is so refreshing and fabulous to read the writing, as in the above posting, of someone with a mathematical mind. Being female and experiencing the world primarily through emotions I am aghast at the clarity of thought and analytical perspective one could possibly hold. Certainly I am analytical and can and do come to some of the same conclusions that you have come to in your postings...but I do this through my "heart", intuition, or inner knowing. I am new to the topic of gnosticism and alchemy, but am deeply interested in learning. I came upon the topic through my interest in myth, life purpose, and an introduction to gnoticism via the internet. It is facinating to understand Jung's work was developed and defined through his integrating of alchemy and gnosticism.
 
 
elkhart
01:11 / 14.07.06
Jung is a western Europeans easiest doorway into the complex labyrinth of alchemy.
Jung saw alchemy as symbolic manifestations of the collective unconscious distilling the best human awareness.
He mentioned its physical practical partners of the inner psychological process the evidence of the philosophers stone were still a mystery to him, although the paintings in his red book reveal he actually saw it psychicly.
Carl Jung The Wounded Healer of the Soul by Claire Dunne has many of his alchemy pictures.

Alchemy is repleting depletion. Distilling vital essence, seperating what you want from what you do not want. It is a more permanent path than psychadelics which trigger your personal vitality as rocket fuel leaving you exhausted after. It visits the same places evolving into them naturally by building the astral body by repleting depletion of vital essence.
Modern alchemy is well and alive at the ORMUS SCIECE WORKGROUP FORUM and at RUBELLUS PETRINUS the alchemist.
Precipitating sea salt creates Ormus a crude pre-stage to orme oil which the body digests from the orme precipitate to feed the human perception matrix and raise awareness. Sea the article of SEA SALT &ALCHEMY on this forum.
 
 
EvskiG
12:03 / 14.07.06
Would some moderator please give ol' Salty the smackdown he or she so richly deserves?
 
 
Quantum
12:47 / 14.07.06
I have PM'd elkhart to ask that ze posts all the alchemical discussion in one thread at a time.
I'll leave someone else to discuss the content of the posts.
 
 
l gyre
22:39 / 14.07.06
i took a couple of classes in alchemy, which were pretty cool. the thing i was most interested in was that according to my teacher, alchemy was not just metaphorical, but neither was it just physical. which is to say that the alchemists actually carried out physical experiments and procedures, but these were considered to have intellectual and spiritual results as well as physical. he recommended the book "plant alchemy" because of the three major types of work he described (plant, animal, and mineral), plant is the easiest to jump straight into as a practice.
 
  
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