BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


NY Times WTC Redesign Project

 
 
Ethan Hawke
14:46 / 07.09.02
In this week's New York Times Magazine, the fruits of the labors of an international team of architects recruited by critic Herbert Muschamp to re-design the space around the former WTC are revelealed. And it's a doozy, almost too much to take in. The plans for the site itself are rather straightforward, with a memorial taking up the "footprints" of the former towers, with two new skycrapers, square in form but "torqued", looming over the scene. A Transporatation hubbed (that looks flowing and colorful in the concept drawings), a school, and a museum make up the rest of the complex.

The more ambitious plans feature a redesign of the area directly behind (well, west) of the WTC site. Apartment buildings and commercial spaces are redesigned to bring a human scale back to the city.

There's really too much to describe in one post; Make sure you look at the Flash presentation that features the designers talking about their plans. It's extremely unlikely that most of these things will be built. But it would be nice to cherrypick some favorites and talk about them
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
19:52 / 07.09.02
Damn, I thought they were soliciting ideas. I've got this one involving Yggdrasil, you see, and...
 
 
netbanshee
20:23 / 07.09.02
I liked the fact that the article's slant knocked on the current process of building and zoning. It would be nice to see the artists put their ideas out and everyone else work around them.

But onto the topic...

I did dig the concourse elements with the undulating walkways. Spoke to a more organic way to look at architecture as well as not being afraid to use some space. Hopefully the place, or places I should say, will have color instead of the typical dinginess that comes with off-white treatments.

I like the footprint idea for the memorial as well as the tie-in with the hudson river one. Take up some space and open up the corridors between all of those buildings. Would be nice and refreshing. Also taking advantage of the land to build community centers would be a good step. Make it less business and more discovery.

I'm not sure how I feel about the towers though. A torqued building might be cool and a tad unconventional. It does throw back to the older design in a way by utilizing the square. I'm just wondering if putting two big buildings next to each other again is a good idea. I don't know if anyone would be psychologically ready to get on a 100th floor of any building without being uncomfortable about it. They should somehow speak more about strength and security. Maybe also integrating the two structures together might be nice.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
17:29 / 18.12.02
Yet another set of WTC redesign plans unveiled

I rather like the Daniel Liebskind Studios plan (see the slideshow). It looks very elegant and refined, as opposed to the brutes the other 6 teams seem to have come up with. Of course, the CNN voting public is against me, so what do I know. Anyway, take a gander at what they're proposing, and guess whether or not we're gonna have the tallest monstrosities in the world down here again.

And, if you'd like, take a gander at these again, subject of a long-ago conversation thread.
 
 
bio k9
18:41 / 18.12.02
Concept #2: Foster and Partners

"This contemporary design features a single tower, much taller than the World Trade Center twin towers."


Are they trying to rebuild the Tower of Babel? Why is this monstrosity of excess leading in the voting?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
20:33 / 18.12.02
Maybe I pay too much attention to Piloti, but Norman Foster seems to have a bit of a complex about huge buildings which completely dominate everything else around them. I don't know what they're like on the inside - probably amazing - but on the outside they come across as domineering and rather soulless - it's like the mind of all the stereotypical City bankers combined and then transformed into a whopping great glass thing - you can't see in because it just reflects everything right back in your face, but everything which happens inside it affects you... I think. I mean, look at that gherkin thing that's going up near St Paul's - I think it's beastly. But every time I think that I worry that I'm turning into Prince Charles.
 
 
invisible_al
10:18 / 19.12.02
Of all of them I prefer the Peterson/Littenberg plan, it seems to have a lot more open space than the others. It also seems a lot softer compared to the other schemes, more like the Empire State in some respects. Pity they don't show a skyline picture of this scheme.
The Forster and Partners scheme is really taking the piss, let's have a huge building and not learn anything, it completely overpowers everything near it. And United architects, there's one image on the CNN site that suggests that you're barely going to get any light in the center.
As for our local Gerkin, well as a building I don't mind it too much...somewhere else, it just seems completely out of place with anything else in London, including Tower 42 next to it. But it does look pretty in green though. *sigh* Bladerunner is nice to look at on the screen but having arcologies in your city is a bit of a shock.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
11:55 / 19.12.02
Is there a picture of this "gherkin" on the web somewhere? I'd like to see it. Some of Foster's stuff I've seen, i don't mind so much. I don't know the specific name of the building, but there's one in London that has all the heating duct work, etc. exposed on the outside, yes? That one was kind of neat looking. But this WTC plan - it's absolutely ridiculous.

The United Architects project is kind of interesting, with all of these interlocking, shiny buildings that lean over on each other for support. They showed a computer animation of it on TV (you know, a camera flying around and up and down the building and stuff), and it looked pretty cool.

I still like the Liebskind one the best - it doesn't brutalize the skyline, it doesn't attempt to "replace" or specifically invoke the destroyed towers, and in general is graceful and moving compared to the others. I really hope they pick that one.
 
 
Saveloy
12:42 / 19.12.02
bio_k9:
"Are they trying to rebuild the Tower of Babel? Why is this monstrosity of excess leading in the voting? "

Possibly because it is the only one of the seven to present a single, simple structure to focus your attention on. The Meier Eisenman Gwathmey Holl scheme (#3) does it with two structures but it looks like a portcullis or even a set of prison bars - it's f***ing hideous. The other contenders present a confusing mass of shapes which don't particularly stick in the memory, except scheme no. 6 which looks conservative and unimaginative next to the others (plus you have to stare at the illustration for half an hour in order to differentiate the building from everything else that's going on in the picture).

Personally, I don't know which of the proposals I'd pick. I like big bold buildings and confusing masses of shapes. Imposing towers and simple, recognisable shapes give a city a more interesting outline or texture when seen from a distance, without which they tend to look like a flat grey blanket or low wall. They also provide a useful landmark for orienting yourself around a city. And, of course, huge things are cool FULL STOP. But I think the Foster design is ugly, and not in a good way. So I'd have to go for one of these:

#1 Liebeskind - Liebeskind always rocks
#4 THINK Team - the 'Great Room' design
#7 Skidmore, Owings & Merrill - ugly in a good way
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:59 / 19.12.02
More extensive slide shows of the designs here, along with statements by the architects

I'm going to try and go see the models today at lunch. They're on public display near ground zero.
 
 
Saveloy
15:06 / 19.12.02
BBC News report on the Erotic Gherkin

More pics

Short Grauniad article


The Foster WTC proposal looks better to me in the full slide show - less solid, more translucent. The bit where the transport interchange comes up between the legs of the new tower looks amazing. The Skidmore, Owings Merril one looks very diff, too. The dense cluster of bendy towers looks great as a model, but wouldn't it feel intensely claustrophobic or oppressive for anyone stuck in the middle?
 
 
Ethan Hawke
15:42 / 19.12.02
It looks like God's buttplug.

Unfortunately, I walked over to World Financial Center during my lunchbreak, and was informed that the exhibits will be open to the public starting tomorrow. Hoom.
 
 
invisible_al
12:30 / 20.12.02
Hmmm I'm comming round to seeing why people like the Daniel Libeskind plan.


Vertical gardens
, mmmm nice.

Still unsure about Forster and Partners their Memorials are a bit soul-less for my tastes.

And United Architects, just looking at the skyline pictures I can see it makes a complete mess of lower manhatten.

Wish they'd have this much public consultation for stuff like what happens to the Dome and the Greenwich Peninsula. There was a really cool scheme with tall blocks with gardens on the middle floors, but it didn't get through.
 
 
gingerbop
18:10 / 20.12.02
Is building another set of huuuge towers not just ASKING for trouble...?

The last ones were supposed to be able to cope with an aircraft hitting them... That was untill fuel was taken into account, and then they built even bigger planes. Surely the same thing will happen again. Even if they allow for the biggest aeroplanes, bigger ones will be built, carrying more people, and more fuel.

It is such an American concept...to build bigger, better, stonger. Just coz they're the most powerful nation, isnt to say they are the wisest.
 
 
SteppersFan
19:01 / 23.12.02
Libeskind is the best -- but then I'm a fan anyway.
 
 
Constitution Hill
12:43 / 24.12.02
Does anyone know where i can find the opinion polls on the designs? I really hope the Lord Norman doesn't win this one. Every building i've been in of his feels soul-less...
 
 
invisible_al
08:39 / 05.02.03
Two finalists for WTC redesign choosen Well it's down to the line and it's either Libeskind or the Think project.

Well I'm happy because Libeskind is in the final two as it was my favourite.I can see why the Think project is popular, it's a gigantic two fingers to terrorists, but I really hope it doesn't win, theres that whole hubris thing along with the fact that it's just ugly, IMHO.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:50 / 05.02.03
It's going to be interesting how things progress from here, as everyone and his dog from Bush downwards will have an opinion on this one and there'll be so much wrangling going on behind the scenes. I doubt either of these designs will get chosen without at least *some* alterations/input from elsewhere

Mind you, Libeskind has been going all out for the job. I hope he gets it.
 
 
straylight
16:58 / 05.02.03
The Think project is hideous and, yes, hubris is the right word for it: let's just make two more enormous towers, but this time we'll make them decorative!

You would think something decorative would be intended to enhance the skyline, rather than to stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.

But the Libeskind design is lovely, that giant spire (what's it for? I can't seem to find any articles that detail the designs very thoroughly, but then, I didn't look THAT hard) notwithstanding. I don't think making the new world's tallest building should be a requirement in the development of a new WTC. But other than that, I like the use of space, and the whole project has a grace to it that's missing from a lot of development in Manhattan in general. I hope he wins.
 
 
JohnnyYen
23:29 / 05.02.03
I'd hate to lay myself open to accusations of flippancy or wilful cuntiness, but how about a great big fuck-off marble slab engraved with the names of everyone since 1945 who's died thanks to US foreign policy? I know 2 million Vietnamese who can take care of the first 50 floors.

NDD
 
 
invisible_al
09:54 / 06.02.03
I think the spire is part of the vertical gardens that I think is the best thing about the Liebskind.

Oh just found Liebskind's website that refers to it in the news section.

"The sky will be home again to a towering spire of 1776 feet high, the "Gardens of the World". Whygardens? Because gardens are a constant affirmation of life. A skyscraper rises above its predecessors, reasserting the pre-eminence of freedom and beauty, restoring the spiritual peak to the city, creating an icon that speaks of our vitality in the face of danger and our optimism in the aftermath of tragedy. Life victorious."

Sounds like something I can agree with.
 
 
invisible_al
08:14 / 27.02.03
Libeskind's design chosen. Cool news, definately the best of the bunch IMHO.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
12:14 / 27.02.03
yeah. Agrred. Vertical Garden is amazing - cept rumour has it, all the cool features will be sacrified at the altar of Mammon.

As well as all the other smart elements.

So that eventually what we will have are two square extrusions.

Or in other words:

the original WTC!

Hope not though.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
14:07 / 27.02.03
I'm certainly glad the Libeskind plan was chosen - I think, out of all the plans, it was the one that expressly didn't evoke the former WTC in its lines, its construction, its opressiveness. The main spire, though mawkish at exactly 1776 feet, it elegant, graceful, in a way none of the other plans were.

There will undoubtedly be some outcry against this choice - in addition to Rudy Guiliani, who has set himself up in loco parentis of the relatives of the victims of 9-11, much of the public will declare themselves dissastisfied with the design - that it's not perfect. Additionally, in the waning weeks of the competition, the Libeskind plan attracted many high-profile enemies, including some early supporters, like New York Times architecture critic Herbert Muschamp.

Muschamp's critique is interesting and worth dwelling on for a moment, if only because he expressed great enthusiasm for Libeskind's project when the plans were initially unveiled. Discounting imputed political motives (Muschamp is a great champion and friend of Rafeal Vilooly, one of the members of the THINK team), Muschamp's argument against Libeskind's plan is a moral one. The most highly touted feature of the Libeskind's project was his plan to leave bare and exposed the "bathtub" of the former WTC as a memorial to the victims. This evocation of the underworld of twisted metal and crushed concrete was thematically balanced by the rocketing spire of the gardens, but surely the depths would overshadow the heights to any visitor to the site.

While a stark memorial such as this is immediately appealing to those of us who viscerally dislike totemic arches, crosses, domes and the other bric-a-brac of commemoration, and seems to convey deep feeling and gravity without the pomp of a man-made shrine to the victims, an alternate interpretation surfaced.

Muschamp (and others) upon further reflection of the Libeskind plan (the fact that the Libeskind plan deserved such pouring over goes unremarked), decided that rather than a momument to the spirit of New York, Libeskind's plan would be a momument to violence - that is, the city would forever bear the scar of the attacks, rather than triumph over them (as in the Utopian vision of the THINK plan). In effect, the terrorists would have been co-authors of Libeskind's plan.

The exposed bathtub (even, as requested by Port Authority, attenuated to a depth of 30 feet rather than the 70 (IIRC) the subbasments actually extended to) would be a wound, and by implication, Libeskind's soaring tower (alone among the designs for being, well, alone - single - rather than trying to recoup the mulitiple skyline of the orignal towers. A canny and risky move for the architect, given public sentiment, and one likely to pay off) was a knife, a jagged weapon that loomed over the new civic center. It's still beautiful, Muschamp says, but it's the beauty of the blade. No life can thrive under that shadow.

To me, however, life under Libeskind's beautiful blade is preferrable to living in the oppressive Utopia envisioned by the THINK plan. What, I think, eventually attracted Muschamp and others to the THINK plan was the chance to social engineer, to use this new architecture as a symbol for a future - a future that's suspended in the sky, but built on the ruins below. This kind of utopian architecture always bears the fatal flaw of being simultaneously ahead and behind it's time: immediately after being built, it's a monument to the past's view of the future. The THINK towers try to stretch forward in time, rising from the moment the old WTC fell, but that's simply not possible. A building is forever anchored in time and place, and to try to make a building that transcends time and place is folly.

That is not to say that great architecture cannot be timeless and enduring, and indeed improve over the years. Far from it - I think the Libeskind building will be such an enterprise - initially assailed by critics public and private for being inappropriate, too costly, too "hubrisitic", too different, but will shape the future of Manhattan in a positive and much beloved way. Hopefully, Mayor Bloomberg, Governor Pataki, and the rest will stick to their guns with this decision no matter what the public outcry against (and there will be one). Given Bloomberg's gutsy nature (like him or hate him (no one "loves" him)), I think there is potential for an outcome that is architecturally and socially pleasing.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
18:30 / 27.02.03
Todd, I appreciate your informed commentary on this intruiging project.

The WTC saga is, in all ways, epic and I'm fascinated to see how it all pans out.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
18:35 / 27.02.03
And Todd, the building which you like in London (with all the ducting) is the Lloyds Building by Richard Rogers.

Like Foster crossed with Terry Gilliam.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:30 / 03.03.03
Count me among those who don't like the Liebeskind (sorry spelling) plan. It does nothing for the skyline. I want something bold and dramatic, not a thin little spire surrounded by 4 sawed-off generic-looking office buildings.

I would have preferred the THINK proposal of the towers with the scaffolding look. Either evoke the WTC or have a dramatic soaring new addition to the NYC skyline, that's my two cents.
 
 
kan
12:11 / 04.03.03
I disagree that the Liebeskind design does nothing for the NY skyline. Looking at the views on his website the extended spire seems to echo the raised arm & torch of the Statue of Liberty. A reassertion of the values this lady stands for? Reading the design text, Liebeskind refers to his childhood memories of arriving in NY and the impact the Statue of Liberty had on him. I think his spire is a conscious effort to amplify the aspirational/transcending oppression/soaring impact of the Liberty torch.

but just how powerful is this little guy?-

"Each year on September 11th between the hours of 8.46am, when the first airplane hit and 10.28am, when the second tower collapsed, the sun will shine without shadow in perpetual tribute to altuism and courage"

will there be a ginormous spotlight in the event of rain?
 
 
Baz Auckland
16:27 / 19.12.03


A night view of the Freedom Tower...as seen from the south at night, at the site of New York's former World Trade Center. The Freedom Tower will become the world's tallest building, rising 1,776 feet above New York.

The final design was released today. Lots of pics at the link... I'm assuming the Freedom Tower is a late add-on?
 
 
Baz Auckland
16:29 / 19.12.03
...oops. I just saw the Freedom Tower in the above posts... the add-on bits are "a lattice structure filled with energy-generating windmills at the top of the building. Childs likened the suspension elements of the new design to the Brooklyn Bridge, with the bottom of the building "torqued or twisted."

The plan calls for a cable suspension structure that creates an open area above the building's 70 floors of office space, and houses windmills to generate energy. The windmills could provide 20 percent of the building's energy.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
16:54 / 19.12.03
Well, the tower is what Childs and Liebiskind were arguing over. The design released today was the compromise plan. I can't really tell what it looks like. I can say that I don't like the way that it relates to the other proposed buildings in the complex, but those might not be final designs either.
 
  
Add Your Reply