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Joy Division

 
 
paw
15:12 / 06.09.02
I've done a search on barbelith for this band but come up with nothing. some people i know from uni go on and on about them but being the countryside kid that i am i've never come across their music. I've got £30 to spend on them so i need to know what is their most seminal album(s)/songs? if you want to rant on about the rest of their music/discography go right ahead. cheers
 
 
paw
15:14 / 06.09.02
coincidentally, for any american lithers, £30 will get me roughly about 2 albums
 
 
Rollo Kim, on location
15:32 / 06.09.02
Mmm. The first album, Unknown Pleasures (?) is pretty cool. But Closer is the one that's been the most influential - much more focused and 'interesting'. You might want to go for a compilation: as long as you get to hear Atmosphere, Love Will Tear Us Apart, She's Lost Control, and Insight you are sorted.
 
 
Jack Fear
15:48 / 06.09.02
I'd go for the compilation "Substance," myself: the last half is truly mighty.

Then with the leftover money, see or rent the film "24 Hour Party People" for a bit of the story of the scene behind the band.
 
 
uncle retrospective
19:17 / 06.09.02
For Joy Division you really have to go for Unknown Pleasures once you get past the duff first track your in for one of the best albums ever.
(it works very nicely with pornography by the cure) The Money is worth it alone for a New Dawn Fades.
I'd go for Substance over Closer as well.
my 2 cent.
 
 
Seth
19:46 / 06.09.02
Or you could go overbudget by £0.04 and get Heart and Soul, a four CD set that includes all of the above and more. I was lucky enough to buy it when Tower misspriced a load of them at £16.99/.

Trust me. 78 tracks.
 
 
reFLUX
20:51 / 06.09.02
i'd go with exp on this. Heart and Soul has everything they've done. totally brilliant. i also managed to get it cheap in a sale.
 
 
The Strobe
21:40 / 06.09.02
Well, as everyone's said, there isn't a lot.

But both Unknown Pleasures AND Closer are midprice now, and as a local record store does bargains on midprice stuff, I got the pair for £12. All you need is Substance, really.

Or, as everyone's said, the box set. (Note: don't buy the rereleased live album. It's a low quality recording, which isn't great, but isn't meant to be - they thought it should be released because it existed, ont because it's an amazing piece of hi-fi). From what my mate who owns it said, it's for completists only).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:56 / 06.09.02
I'm not sure why, but I'm really not a big fan of Closer. It gives me motion sickness. Seriously.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:45 / 07.09.02
exp is bang on the fucking money. You should be able to pick up "Heart and Soul" for somewhere in the region of thirty quid. And it is an essential purchase. If my entire record collection got nicked I'd be okay if they left that behind.

Truly, the greatest band ever.
 
 
NotBlue
19:37 / 20.09.02
The album which has "Love will tear us apart" on it, I don't recall the name, (got lots of unmarked tapes). But that is sooooo sooooo good.
 
 
The Strobe
20:23 / 20.09.02
Also: and I don't know if this is off-topic or not...

having waited for years for it come to an acceptable price, I finally bought the New Order substance. Only listened to Disc 1 so far... but ROCK ON A STICK! Like, recent New Order is most variable, Sumner can't write lyrics for shit (though I liked Get Readya lot)... but this is just fantastic! Crazy, overblown, stuttering samples, big guitars, and I really CAN now see how the one became the other - how one flows into the other; also, it now seems to be far more than just Curtis dying, though that obviously played a relatively major part. But... I can see the JD elements here that I'd lost by the more recent NO stuff.
 
 
Breefield
05:10 / 09.01.08
I didn't know about the movie "24 hour party people" but I have seen the 2007 movie "Control". It made me cry, so sad, I want to know more about the underlying story of this band though.
I also didn't know that they're like The Killers distant parents. The Killers are one of my favorite bands ever, and they added The Killer's version of JD's song "shadowplay" durring the credits of Control.
 
 
HCE
23:30 / 28.01.08
A terrible version which adds nothing to the song whatsoever while depriving it of all the compelling sonority of Ian Curtis' voice.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:30 / 29.01.08
Hmm. When I finally get round to seeing it, remind me to bail when the credits roll.
 
 
uncle retrospective
12:24 / 29.01.08
Watch the credits and when you hear the Killers cover rembember Wilson wanted to use Enter Shikari.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:32 / 29.01.08
Yep, apart from that, the two movies 24 Hour PP and Control are well worth watching - the first one for a broader picture and the second for specific JD. There isn't really a bad record by JD. Substance has some different versions of certain songs. The live one - is it Still? - is a bit flaky at points but still well worth listening to after you've heard the studio albums.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:34 / 29.01.08
Also, and this is controversial, the first New Order record, Movement, also produced by M.H., is seen by some as a Joy Division record rather than a NO one. Make up yer own mind, I guess.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:51 / 29.01.08
Joy Division + Martin Hannett = When Drugs Collide: the band were speed freaks, Hannett a smackhead. What made the sound so magical, I think, was the reconciling of opposites—a ferocity of performance coupled with a ghostly, dreamtime ambience; taking something raw and barely-controlled, and making it stately. I haven't heard the live record, but I imagine the band were an entirely different proposition onstage.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:10 / 29.01.08
There's a lot of agression. Like all live music, it doesn't make a great record, but you can tell it would have been very, very good.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:09 / 30.01.08
The live stuff on Heart And Soul (not Still) sounds like a much more ROCKIN' band. Equally good, but in a different way. It doesn't have that Ballardian clinicism that's a defining feature of their recorded stuff. Put it this way- hearing the live stuff, it's easier to imagine Hooky strutting his stuff while playing.
 
 
Rebellious Jukebox
20:17 / 04.02.08
THE KILLERS ARE NOTHING LIKE JOY DIVISION.

I say this out of respect for JD; regardless, Ian Curtis was a whiny sod, and the rest of the band turned into fucking New Order after he offed himself - the story speaks for itself, I think. If you must listen to them, I'd suggest their Peel Sessions (which are actually pretty scorching, it's good to hear the band freed of Hannett's smothering production) and Closer, their second, last, and most exciting album which just underwent the two disc reissue treatment last year.

Really, though, I'd advise you to just listen to The Fall instead. Start with the first three albums: Live At The Witch Trials, Dragnet, and Grotesque. It's all going to be okay.

New to Barbelith, by the way, this is my first post. Hi everybody!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:12 / 05.02.08
I don't think they're the same, really; or not similar enough that after listening to The Fall you wouldn't enjoy listening to Joy Division. It's like when they gave spiders acid, crack and LSD - though the tools were basically the same (tight snares, grumpy guitars, viciousness, bile, thin boys, the city, modernism, etc) the products were all very different. You don't get the iconic sadness of JD with the fall, and you don't get the tottering insanity of the Fall with JD.
 
 
Rebellious Jukebox
06:39 / 06.02.08
Who the hell wants Iconic Sadness when you can have Tottering Insanity?

This is actually a subject I feel very strongly about; as a serious music nerd, I naturally find myself idolizing my favorite musicians to a certain extent, as unhealthy as that can be, so I think it's very important for music fans to choose their idols carefully. Looking up to Ian Curtis is, I think, profoundly Wrong in the general scheme of things. Suicide does not a hero make: I'd much rather look up to Mark E. Smith, who while being just as much of a self-absorbed little twit, never fails to inspire in his absolute refusal to stop doing what he's doing or compromise it in any way. It was a fantastic personal revelation to me when I decided to just put on The Fall whenever I wanted/needed to listen to Joy Division; my general artistic productivity increased, along with my sex drive, social skills, and overall well-being. I started reading more too; you kind of have to to keep up with most of what M.E.S. is blithering on about (M.R. James, Lovecraft, Camus, etc).

It REALLY bothers me that we have movies about Ian Curtis, but none about Mark E. Smith. Why is it that we're so much more inclined as a society to commend or pay attention to self-destructively romantic individuals like Mr. Curtis over the insular badassery of a man like Mark, who's been kicking life's ass for decades now and shows no signs of slowing? It's as though the only culturally acceptable way to be an Asshole is to be a Sad Asshole, which totally defuses the rebellious and idealistic message of Real Assholes like Mark E. Smith. In short, the way I see it, if you're going to listen to angular, difficult music for assholes, focus on those artists who portray aggression over anxiety, and keeping on over giving up - don't make a fucking mopefest out of it!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:47 / 06.02.08
Who the hell wants Iconic Sadness when you can have Tottering Insanity?

Well, maybe no-one, but they're still different things!

... I think it's very important for music fans to choose their idols carefully. Looking up to Ian Curtis is, I think, profoundly Wrong in the general scheme of things.

Yup, I think everyone here agrees.
 
 
Blake Head
12:58 / 06.02.08
As it is, so far I’m with AAR in that I’m not really convinced yet that it’s an either/or choice, the benefits to one’s general well being put aside.

I think, RJ, you might find yourself more receptive both to the music and biographical films of specific musicians were you to distinguish between their lives and the content of their songs, and similarly between “looking up to” them and empathising wholly or partially identifying with their situation. I don’t know if you’ve seen Control (which is the only film I know of that focuses on Curtis / Joy Division), but I think if not, you’ve been a bit hasty to characterise it as a product of society’s celebration of the doomed artist; it’s creators actually seem pretty aware of those sorts of issues, and the film’s pretty successful in showing Curtis’ self-destructive tendencies and not glamorising them. In fact, if you want one reading of it, it’s a good example of how compromise, which all of us, M.E.S. excepted maybe, live with to some degree, can generate creative energies whilst simultaneously signalling a loss of control over one’s life and ideals. I’m not meaning to be negative about your thoughts, but separating people or musicians into sad wilting losers and stubborn, abrasive copers might be just a touch simplistic, and particularly in regard to Curtis maybe just a little tasteless as well.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:09 / 06.02.08
It REALLY bothers me that we have movies about Ian Curtis, but none about Mark E. Smith.

I always like to imagine that's who Thewlis is playing in Mike Leigh's Naked... (I read that as a suggestion in a review when the movie first came out, and can't get it out of my head now).
 
 
Tsuga
21:27 / 06.02.08
That would make Mark E. Smith quite the asshole, then.
Which reminds me, why is there not a thread on Mike Leigh here?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:30 / 06.02.08
Because you haven't started one yet? I'm not really an expert...
 
  
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