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I appear to be writing a novel

 
 
Shortfatdyke
07:49 / 05.09.02
Much as I love writing short stories and think that's where I'll stay for the most part, I think there's at least a big novella or even a novel now wanting to be written. Think it's got a lot to do with moving and the fact that I know I'll be taking some time off work - my family (who I'll be staying with) are more than happy to give me the time and space to do this. I've never done this before and I'm relying on instinct: what I'm doing is sketching out a brief storyline, then doing character profiles. I assume the next step will be to do outlines of chapters, then I can start on the work proper. I don't feel like I need to hurry, which has what's discouraged me before. But if any other novel writers out there have any tips, I'd be grateful to hear from you.
 
 
Sax
09:08 / 05.09.02
I think any advice is just pointless, really, because most people will have their own ways of doing things.

For what it's worth (and that's probably nothing; I've written one complete novel which didn't make it and am three-quarters of the way through another) I tend to first come up with the general plot outline, do very brief character sketches, then do some extremely loose structural planning before plotting out the chapters in detail.

What I find most important is to think of the main concepts and characters and stick them in the back of my head for a bit - sometimes even months - to ferment. This works on a subconscious level for me, and I'll often be in the middle of doing something else when whole plot strands and bits of dialogue suddenly leap into my fore-brain from nowhere. Which can be quite disturbing.

Also to remember is that you'll need a couple of sub-plots to keep the reader on their toes and to keep the action moving along nicely.

I'm the world's worst self-editor - I tend to let loose a stream of consciousness barrage of words and then think it can't be improved upon. Either discipline yourself to be harsh or get a friend with editing skills and thick skin to go over it.

I always concentrate on getting dialogue bob-on before going back to flesh out descriptions and background - the words your characters speak are what will define them and they have to be believable. As an example I just read an truly awful small-press novel for review at work in which a young cinema usherette in modern-day Yorkshire uttered the words: "I do not feel well at the moment. I feel as if I am a small cork buffeted about by the turbulence of a terrible tempest." Which is the kind of stuff you hear all the time in Bradford.

Don't give up, and don't be afraid to scrap whole sections - sometimes even chapters - if it's not working for you. Be careful of writing yourself into a corner - I've had what I thought were brilliant ideas while writing late at night and when I've read them in the cold light of day they were absolutelly appalling.

When you've written maybe six chapters or so, send it off to an agent to see what they think. But don't be downhearted if they send a form letter back, and don't pack it in, whatever happens. But you just might drop lucky and get some guidance from someone who likes the sound of it. That happened to me and was a great inspiration, although when the crunch came they couldn't sell it.

Finally, don't tell your mates you're writing a novel, or if you do, don't elaborate too much. You'll spend all your time talking about it rather than writing it.

One last thing: Never write in red underwear. Completely blocks me, for some reason.

Good luck!
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:49 / 05.09.02
I was talking to a friend recently, whose novels are both irritatingly good and culpably well-received, and he admitted that he starts with an idea and gets to work. He doesn't plan at all. The consequences of this are legion - his characters take him places he did not expect to go, and events play off one another in a realistic way. He can find himself written into a corner and have to start over (he does this about fifteen times per novel - I'm not talking about reworkings here, I'm talking about back to page one, new characters, new everything, same general notion).

That way of doing things fills me with a mixture of terror and admiration - partly because my industry is so fixated on knowing what you get before you pay for it that I haven't done any work for years which wasn't plotted in advance, at least for my own satisfaction.

I make notes and I draw diagrams and I write little bits and I do themes and wild ideas and digressions and...

Good luck. You'll find your own way through it. Ten random bits of advice given to me over the years:

1) You're using too many adjectives.
2) Message is for hacks - if you write the story, the message will be there.
3) "The cat sat on the mat" is a piece of trivia. "The cat sat on the dog's mat" is the beginning of a story.
4) You're still using too many adjectives.
5) You know that first page you wrote which set everything out, introduced the character, set the tone? Delete it. That's what the rest of the novel is for.
6) Don't tell me about stuff. Tell me stuff. Let me do the judging.
7) See that? That's an adjective you don't need. They're like roaches - let one in and you'll see more.
8) Don't sit down in fron of a blank page without a clue what you're going to say, and always leave yourself something easy to do when you stop at night, so that you have a gentle run in in the morning.
9) Not every page has to sing opera. You are allowed to rest for several beats.
10) Discipline.
 
 
DaveBCooper
11:59 / 05.09.02
I’d agree with the idea that you might do well to let the idea ferment – I find that trying to get an idea ‘pen-to-paper ready’ before it’s bursting out of the brain is usually a mistake for me. When I let the notions stew, and the characters become like people I know, then I find it’s easier – a case of discovering how things pan out, as opposed to tilting events in certain directions, if you see what I mean.
So yep, on the basis my experience I’d say you’re right not to rush into it.

I know you’ve written a fair amount before, so you’ll probably be okay in terms of the actual process of how you do it, but it’s always worth making sure you’re comfortable with how you get the stuff down. Some people write longhand, others word-process, or whatever, and you might find that you end up adopting a different technique for the novel than your usual way, if you see what I mean. No harm in that. Whatever works for each person.

DBC
 
 
Jack Fear
12:10 / 05.09.02
One of my favorite resources: what Gene Wolfe knows about writing.

Most importantly: good writing, as you know, is maybe 30% writing and 70% revision. For a large-scale work (i.e. a novel) the ratio's more like 10% to 90%. Every so often a perfectly-formed short story will fall out of your head directly onto the page: that doesn't happen with a novel, simply because your head's not big enough to hold the whole thing all at once. You're going to have to get it out in bits and pieces and wrestle it together.

"Perfection is not sexy," saith Wolfe, and neither is it necessary--or even desirable, early on. I've mentioned Anne Lamott's metaphor for drafts before, but I'll repeat it here: early drafts of a work are like all those rockets that NASA builds for the express purpose of blowing them up. They were never meant to fly: they were in fact designed to fail, in order to expose the weak points of the construction. When you've built and destroyed enough leaky, crippled hulks—and you'll know when you have—then you can worry about grace.

Godspeed.

Now get in there and blow up some fucking rockets.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
14:20 / 05.09.02
Thankee, thankee - some great stuff, some of which I was intending to do, a lot of which I hadn't thought about. I know everyone has their own way of doing things, but I'm not going to pretend I have a clue about novel writing - as I say, I'm relying on instinct, but I also need and appreciate advice.

I don't intend doing anything other than planning until I move, about seven weeks from now. I've been busy today doing a summary of the story, a bit of sub plotting, and the beginnings of the characters. Once that's done, I'll do as I often do for short stories - let the ideas brew awhile. I want to know the characters fairly well by the time I start, but I also want to be able to head off in directions I hadn't originally planned. If it ends up entirely different to what I thought it would be, so be it - as long as I'm happy with it. But I'll keep the plan with me at all times, along with my notebook - if dialogue or whatever presents itself - which I certainly would hope would be the case - then I'll write it down.

And I've chucked out all my red underwear.
 
 
gridley
16:25 / 05.09.02
my only advice would be not to overplan. A rough sketch of plot is usually fine for me. Anything more, and I lose the desire to finish it because I already know how everything turns out.

(Nick, great advice!)
 
 
paw
17:35 / 05.09.02
P.S Nick, who's your friend?
 
 
Jack Fear
20:13 / 05.09.02
Jasper Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-f-fforde, no doubt.

(that bit is to be sung to the tune of "David Watts," by the way)
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
05:55 / 06.09.02
Nothing useful to add, sfd, except that I find myself in a similar position (look, I didn't want to start writing a novel, okay? The central character just popped into my head one day and begain pushing me around) and you have my yayness.

Oh, and Nick is right about adjectives.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:05 / 06.09.02
Jack: Hah... Ten points for the Kinks reference, but... no. Amazingly, I gave much the same list to Jasper once upon a time, when we were talking about writing, both of us from the point of view of unpublished and unconsidered trifles. Now he's on novel three and I'm still trying to achieve liftoff with my script work - but then, that's the nature of the route I chose. Which is not to say I don't cast wishful eyes at the world of novels, where someone doesn't have to like your work enough to invest several million before you can get your name on a poster.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:35 / 06.09.02
Oops--saw you bigging him up in another thread, and mentioning that he's a mate, and put two and two together and got seven and a half.

Ignore me, folks.
 
 
Logos
23:15 / 08.09.02
I've always liked Hemingway's comment: "first drafts are shit".

The most important thing is to keep at it a bit at a time, as though you were laying bricks to build a wall. Nobody writes 100,000 words in one sitting...except that one guy, and he mostly dictated.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
17:53 / 17.12.02
Well, I've made a proper start (drafted a Prologue and the beginning of Chapter 1) on this and it's going really well. It's nice to be able to delve more deeply into various bits that I can't do with a short story. It's different. It's like being in command of a broader universe, if I might sound so pompous. It's all in longhand at the moment, which is okay, but I think once my computer is properly set up (still a month or so away I suspect) then I expect to be spending most of my days working on it.

I have kept all your advice in mind. Thanks!
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
07:52 / 20.12.02
Is there a novel-writing virus out there this month or something?

I too have started on this painful journey. What I did was very very very sketchy outline. Then I sit down to write a specific scene and I write a completely different one. I am skipping around. I started with the Climax and have been following specific threads back in time to the start. I have abandoned any control and am letting the muse write it. Only later will I start on the neccesary 90% that is... da da dun! EDITING, Gasp! oh no!
 
 
Sax
10:41 / 20.12.02
Bollocks to editing. I'm from the Kerouac school of typing-not-writing.

Which is why I'm papering my house with rejection slips, presumably.
 
 
gingerbop
18:48 / 20.12.02
hey! well i know nowt about novel writing, but i've kept a diary for 3 years now... and if u look at it, its like 3 very large novels. Its fun 2 read what sh*t i was thinkin 3 years ago. Actually, the majority is the same stuff im thinkin now... How odd.
Good luck with all ur writing, love xx
 
 
Char Aina
22:52 / 20.12.02
gingerbop:
change the names, set it in the future or the past, and maybe throw in more or less sex, depending on how good those years were for you.

voila, un novel!
 
  
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