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The Scots language/dialect

 
 
Fist Fun
18:55 / 04.09.02
I recently read a review of this book - A Scots Parliament.

I find this part interesting:
"he has not "Scotticised" certain words. "The first time people see Scots on the page it looks too dense, like a foreign language, but it’s not impossible once your eye gets used to it. I swithered quite hard over some words - like committee, which you spell ‘comatee’ in Scots - but decided to take it one step at a time."

So it seems like this is a history of the Scottish parliament written in a language partially created by the author. One of the main points seems to be that:
Scots is not about bad English or slang. Scots has status and it’s perfectly valid that we should read and write in it.

So what does everyone think of this use of Scots? I can appreciate it when used in fiction, Irvine Welsh or James Kelman, as a depiction of how people speak but when used in a history text..well, it seems artificial. In order to make it at all acceptable Robertson has invented a whole new version of modern Scots, not west coast not east, so as to be understood. Apart from an interesting project what exactly is the point? It seems to be cod nationalism wishing a language into being to prop up an idea of culture.

Who defines the correct use of language and is there a need for academic texts in regional language/dialect? Is Robertson correct when he states : "Our children should not be brought up with an imaginary scold’s bridle on their mouths - they should just be able to let go and to use their own tongue."
 
 
sleazenation
23:28 / 04.09.02
Is the english langue really anyones 'native tongue' ? being as it is the bastard offsprint of about 3-4 different languages, made to jump through hoops to make it a bit more like latin and exported around the world to assimilate other languages
 
 
The Falcon
23:52 / 04.09.02
Frankly, as a Scot, I hate seeing 'Scots' ratified (or attempts to do so) as a language.

It's part of a kitsch, crap national identity projected upon us from 'daarn saarf', and one only too many of my countrymen are prepared to adopt: the kilt-wearing drunkard who's a bit tight wi' his money, but has a heart of gold and is, like Billy Connolly (radical!), a comedic god.

Or various assorted extrapolations. I fucking hate kilts and malt whisky. And an identity I see Idlewild ('in your CROFT!' - for fuck's sake) and Travis milking.

Aah. "Bleedin' Scots: never 'appy."
 
 
Ariadne
06:46 / 05.09.02
Well, I don't have a problem with Scots being used and studied. The difficulty, of course, is how much it varies across the country -- do you just pick one area? Try to amalgamate them? That seems silly. There's a huge research project there for anyone who wants to study the various dialects across the country. I'm not sure about its use in academic texts but ..hmm, need to think more about that.

I'm pro-Gaelic too, and think it's good that people are trying to keep it going. And I'm very fond of whisky.
 
 
Bear
07:26 / 05.09.02
I agree with Ariadne its a nice idea but there are far too many, if you move 10 miles in any direction its different!

Pro-Gaelic is all well and good but it gets a little annoying when you can't watch Buffy because Telanis is on

Oh and I like kilts but not whisky

Mar sin leibh an dràsda
 
 
Fist Fun
15:14 / 05.09.02
Scots as an academic exercise is an interesting project. Scots as an artificial crutch for nationalism is worrying. What is the point of this book? What is the point in willing a patchwork, artificial language into being? Probably to support a specific type of Scottishness.

I don't think that, in itself, is a bad thing but I think that basing any culture on purely national grounds is. In certain circumstances regional autonomy can be a useful shield against external repressive forces. This isn't the case though for Scotland. It is more a case of internal limitation. Frosty speaks for many people when he describes a complete lack of identification with supposedly Scottish traits - but it isn't an external pressure.
 
 
grant
16:06 / 05.09.02
Ebonics for Bobby Burns fans.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
20:00 / 05.09.02
i do like my kilt, but i only wear it as formal wear in the UK... but when i go abroad ^_^

some whiskies are not bad, but there are plenty of things id rather drink first.

"Pro-Gaelic is all well and good but it gets a little annoying when you can't watch Buffy because Telanis is on "

man that fucks me off!... well it did, but i dont really watch tv anymore
 
 
The Falcon
01:03 / 16.09.02
I actually like Burns - there's a statue of him in central Dundee, with some heartwrenching verse: "...my Mary from my soul was torn', it ends. Roughly. It's just that I find in Scotland a stultifying reverence held by its' citizens for their sheer 'Scottishness'; and ex-pats (including the English ones; especially them) are bloody worse. "Oh, and the countryside..." Yeah, go and fucking play golf on it, then.

No ebonics for me, please, though.
 
 
NotBlue
19:06 / 20.09.02
Scots Gaelic is a language in it's own right (Not sure how it relates to the Irish version).

"Scots" as the chap in the above article means is a regional derivation of english/anglo-saxon whateverbacktothefirstatomexploding thing, every region has slang/colloquial, i.e

swedger --> Glasgow = sweetie, Edinburhg = fight.

Support Gaelic programming inn Scotland, but am vaugely pissed off that it interrupts Buffy and The Simpsons on BBC2.
 
 
Oresa delta 20
23:06 / 20.09.02
Scots Gaelic is a language in it's own right (Not sure how it relates to the Irish version).

Can't say i'm entirely sure about this one either, but the two are incredibly similar, more like two dialects than two languages. Seeing as how the Scots originally came over from ireland anyway, this would probably be how we ended up with the language, altough the scots settled in the southwest (as far as i'm aware), but gaelic was most widely used in the hebridies. Bah, someone else can figure that one out.......
 
  
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