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John Zorn's Tzadik label, specialist labels in general, and the thoughts behind them

 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
00:35 / 30.08.02
So. I'm sitting here listening to Zeena Parkins' Mouth = Maul = Betrayer disc. It's pretty interesting. Chamber ensemble with klezmer styles play over samples of old movies, old mayors, and words spoken in a now-unused thieves' argot. Anyway, it struck me as being more of a sociological document than an album of music, and this led me to wonder what people think and wondering what people think the purpose or value of John Zorn's Tzadik label is.

Admittedly, there's a lot of self-release and self-promotion there - the guy's name is pretty much whispered in awe, most times - but there does seem to be a fairly noble attempt at disseminating music with a Jewish background. It's not necessarily Sephardic or true-to-roots as some other world stuff is, but the Jewishness of the endeavour comes across fairly clearly to me - though that's probably tied in with my cultural expectations of what that would sound like. Anyhoo, the label's a fairly prominent downtown home for experimental musicians, most of who are Jewish. And I was curious as to what the aims behind the label were. Yes, to provide an outlet for avant-garde stuff (as it mostly tends to be) - but what else? I'm curious as to what people see as the motivation behind the label or the roster is. It's certainly different to Jive, say; but is it more philanthropic than others? Is the point of it to ensure access to audio descriptions of what it is to be Jewish (I'm thinking specifically of the Kristallnacht disc, here, or the Bar Kokhba/Circle Maker discs) for the future, rather than racking up loads of sales or providing a firm base which these artists could tour on?

I suppose, a broader question would be this: is it worthwhile, both financially and culturally, for there to exist labels which promote what's usually considered "difficult" or "other". What're the pitfalls in such a strategy? I mention Zorn's work because he leaps to mind because of my recent listening.

Also: is this sort of label an inclusive affair? Some of the time, I feel like I'm not quite comprehending a lot of what's going on there, musically, because I'm not well-versed in the mystical overtones referenced, or don't share the same sociological background. I guess it happens in other musical forms too, but I tend to notice it here more...

Actually, I'd like a Jewish take on the work he's been doing: there's series in there called "Radical Jewish Culture" - what sort of statement does it have on sociological/historical issues? And will, in time, such releases be considered equal of written accounts of individual struggles with religion?

What do people think of labels with specialist aims? Can they survive? Should they survive? Or will they eventually be steamrolled by the bigger labels? Thoughts, please...
 
 
grant
15:10 / 30.08.02
I think the question could equally be applied to niche publishing houses - and I think the answer is that they're all worthwhile as long as what they're putting out is worth putting out.
In the long run, none of them really survive, but the artifacts they produce seem to go on and on.
 
 
videodrome
15:51 / 30.08.02
Well, you know my thoughts on Zorn. (I like him a lot, despite the quantity of wank, for everyone else out there besides Roth.) As I understand it, the original purpose of Tzadik was simply to be a home for Zorn's wide-ranging output. He had so much shit on so many different labels in several countries that I think it was getting a little out of hand. From what I've read, the fact that out of print discs of his were bringing large sums on the collectors market, none of which went to Zorn, was a factor as well. So Tzadik was his imprint, replacing Avant, Warner Brothers, Sony Japan and so many more. It's really pretty impressive that in the span of about six years he's managed to reclaim so much of his work.

It's also a response to the established Jazz community, one for which Zorn has little respect, as evidenced by song titles like "Jazz Snob Eat Shit".

But the fact that Tzadik has evolved into something approaching a cultural archive is a happy side effect. While it's certainly fringe, there's a lot of artists who wouldn't get half the exposure they do without Zorn's label. I know there's records I'd never pick up that I look at because of the Tzadik label. Doesn't mean I buy them, but I then know who the people are and if I come across them later, I'm already positively predisposed towards them.

It's gotten to the point where Tzadik seems to be trying to communicate some expression of experience through its catalogue - [notice that it's gone from he(Zorn) to it(Tzadik) - no longer simply Zorn's vanity label.] And there I find the problem that I have with so much post-modern work, that there's an assumption that either
a)I know more than I do about the topic at hand
or
b)that the work is communicating more than it is.
Admittedly, both of those are problems that potentially lie more in the audience than in the artist, but with that in mind, what steps can be taken to ensure that the aim of one's work will be understood? A lot of the liner notes on these records can barely be discussed as such, and it's a place where Tzadik might be better served by verbosity, rather than the current arty minimalism and "let the music speak for itself" ethos. There's no doubt that all of the Masada work, as much as I already love it, would be more resonant if I knew more about the musical heritage on which it is based? Is it Tzadik's responsibility or mine to provide that education? Mine, certainly, but given the average level of investigative determination, it would be nice to have a reading/listening list, if nothing else. But then, Zorn has an aestheic ethos as well as a musical one, and that's not going to change, even if it stands in spite of the desired effect of the work.

But the question:
is it worthwhile, both financially and culturally, for there to exist labels which promote what's usually considered "difficult" or "other".
can be answered with an emphatic Yes. Simply putting the Tzadik name on a record gives it an identity, and in a situation where we're talking about stuff that might otherwise be seen as being far adrift, culturally, that's a good thing with respect to communication between artist and audience, not taking into account what I've mentioned in the paragraph above. And I think it's a lower level identity than that now-common ethic of 'branding' - the Tzadik label is an inclusive one, albeit inclusive based on Zorn's estimation of worth. There's a lot of Japanese stuff on Txadik that hardly fits the Jeish Culture mold, but it's a fringe interest of Zorns, so it's in.
 
 
shirtless, beepers and suntans
21:42 / 02.09.02
the original poster asked what sort of statement about sociological/historical issues the Radical Jewish Culture series has....

well, the only album in this series that i own is the Marc Bolan tribute, and as you can imagine, the answer is "not much."

being covers from the man who penned the immortal words "get it on, bang a gong" the album is really just one helluva listen, plain and simple.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
03:01 / 03.09.02
That depends though, I guess; I'd imagine that being a glam rocker kinda went against the stream as far as being a normal Jewish kid was concerned. Then again, I don't know how rigid he or his family were in terms of adherence to custom... perhaps a bit more knowledge about his life in this respect would help clue in exactly how radical he was - but I'm neither well-versed in T-Rexism or Judaism enough to really give it a whirl.

[threadrot]
"Hot Love", however, has the most awesome guitar solo ever.
[/threadrot]
 
  
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