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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

A Question about Heat

at the scarwash

14:16 / 29.08.02

Okay, just a question. When I saw Heat, this film was talked up because it was the first film where Pacino and DeNiro are actually on screen together. As in, their characters interact. But they way it's filmed, one never actually sees both of their faces in the same scene. Was this body doubling? Just wondering if anyone knew.

14:20 / 29.08.02

Yeah there's a rumour going round that they weren't together for that scene - not sure if anyone knows the truth though?

14:22 / 29.08.02

Below from IMDB -

Throughout the entire film, Pacino and De Niro never share the screen at the same time. More accurately, you don't see both of their faces on screen at once, except for one brief moment. Through an excellent job of editing and quick cuts, even in the coffee shop and climactic ending on the airport grounds, where De Niro and Pacino are the only two characters in the scenes, this still holds true. The only exception, when you can see both of them at once, is the shot where Pacino pulls over De Niro and is looking out of the car.

16:54 / 29.08.02

Theres another shot with them both in the same shot, the very final scene with DeNiro dying and Pacino standing next to him. Its a lovely technique to do with the whole one is the mirror image of the other theme thats going on in the film.
Wonderful film full of good direction and the two principals trying to act each other off the screen. The Bank robbery still stands up as one of the best action seqences I've ever seen.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

18:17 / 29.08.02

Which part of the bank robbery do you have in mind, because IMHO that was the worst bit of the film which they seemed to try to get through as quickly as possible so as to get them outside and into the confrontation with Pacino's guys.

16:14 / 30.08.02

For my money, putting them onscreen together (or at least in the same scene, you know what I mean) really put the spotlight on their different acting techniques; Pacino all cool and relaxed, and DeNiro a bag of twitches and tics.

DBC

Jack The Bodiless

08:44 / 06.09.02

'Acting techniques'... yeah, that's good. I need to write that down.

Pacino and DeNiro are myths. Their best days are two decades old. Both are hired these days to fill a particular role: DeNiro plays ROBERT NIRO, an introspective mumbler who can't seem to keep his eyes on the person he's speaking to, but who you sense is probably quite hard ; Pacino plays AL PACINO, a bug-eyed shouty man who has to change the usual emphasis and stress of every second sentence he utters, and munch on half the scenery while doing so, removing every other character in the film to background status for the duration of the scene.

"Brother, you are going down..." Hopeless. Cliched, formulaic crap. I despair of Pacino... at least DeNiro, while in just as much of a rut, isn't fucking up every scene he's in with high testosterone shouting and staring. The only thing that makes that movie bearable is the beautifully flowing direction, and the class of the performances by the supporting characters, including one of the only decent roles Val Kilmer's ever filled. Tom Sizemore is great. Ashley Judd - likewise. But it's nicely shot hokum, and almost instantly forgettable.

09:59 / 06.09.02

And yet you remembered all that.

The Natural Way

11:54 / 06.09.02

Remember Pacino's performance in The Godfather? Not a shouty twatman in sight. Oh, what the fuck happened...?

12:50 / 06.09.02

What happened was that he made Revolution in '85, generally regarded as one of the worst movies ever. He was sick, the production had all sorts of problems and the result was his first really bad reviews. He quit for a while - four years worth of 'retirement' that opened back up with Sea Of Love. Then he won an Oscar for playing a shouty twatman in Scent Of A Woman. New legitimacy after the bad reviews....

"Hey! This Works!. I'm not changin'."

But he was good in Insomnia, mainly because he was doing his best Peter Stormare impersonation.

12:57 / 06.09.02

Bank robbery sequence, I was talking about the whole bit including the chase and running firefight outside. I thought it was cool, nicely energetic and the like with some good camerework. The confrontation with Pacino's guy's seemed to me to be part of that whole robbery/running gunfight bit.
As for Pacino, I quite like his Mr Luis Cyper in Angelk Heart, not much shout there either, understated in fact until the last scene.

20:12 / 06.09.02

That's interesting, because it was DeNiro in Angel Heart. And he sucked. I mean, I really liked that movie, but c'mon, Lou Cypher? I gotcha Hairry Angel right here, buddy.

(note: nasty tone used only for effect)

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

23:55 / 07.09.02

In answer to the initial question, does it really matter?

First of all Mann is my favorite director. Second Heat is one of my favorite films.

Mann is a piss poor choice for a director for a film with De Nero and Pacino in. Both actors are very wordy and act best in good dialogue films. Mann however comes across as more of a DOP than a director. The best thing about his films are his use of light and how beautiful they are. He likes stripped down minimalist scripts. Also Heat was something of a tribute to LA, does anyone else know what I mean when I say that pacino and De Nero are East Coast actors?

The scene in the diner is I think one of the worse scenes in the film but that's purely because I think it has one of the most intrusive bits of product placement in it ever. Instead of De Nero & Pacino arguing who gets pride of place in the framing, it goes of a Heinz tomato sauce bottle. Fucked up the whole thing for me, even though Iunderstand the neccesity of product placement in films.

Shouty man? What like he was in Carlito's way? The Insider? Do you think he'll be shouty in Simone? (Sorry pacino is for me a modern day Bogart, he can make anything watchable, except the Devil's Avocado.) How ,any other actors can pull of the line "Dead tech, post modernistic..." etc. etc. Still I like shouty, for a bonus point can you tell the scene in Heat where Pacino goes off in a serious ad lib?

Bad points. I can't believe they've remade Manhunter. Good points. Of all the TV series remakes they could do, thank god they've decided to do Miami Vice.

Has anyone out there seen the Keep? If so what did you think?

03:40 / 08.09.02

Mann is a piss poor choice for a director for a film with De Nero and Pacino in. Both actors are very wordy and act best in good dialogue films. Mann however comes across as more of a DOP than a director.

I have two words in answer to this:

Dante fucking Spinotti.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

10:40 / 08.09.02

I wasn't trying to down play Spinotte's work which is superb, just say that Mann is far more interested in the look of the film than the performance of the actors. As is say Ridley Scott.

02:48 / 09.09.02

Hey guys, this would be like my first post here. Just wanted to say that I think Mann is a director who does make beautiful, sometimes sappy films. I dont see him as minimalist, at least not his last two, The Insider and Ali. Both are pretty wordy, with dialogue and performance driving the plot.
Deniro and Pacino are two older guys who used to be super cool when they were younger. Up till recently, they've had, IMO pretty decent track records, even if they couldn't quite hold onto that hipness.I'd rather have them in movies then not.
It's pretty interesting that they never actually performed together, in that I remeber that being one of the selling points of the film. No different then The Godfather 2 really...
Anyway:
You Guys Rock!

12:28 / 09.09.02

I wasn't trying to down play Spinotte's work which is superb

Didn't think you were, but cinematographers typically get far too little credit, so I had to throw him in there. And when it's a case of a director and D.P. working together over a course of films, such as here or with the Coens and Roger Deakins, Greenaway and Sascha Vierny, I think the D.P. has to be mentioned in the same breath as the director.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

17:02 / 09.09.02

I agree, in fact there's a DOP I know who would fully tell me off if I tried to suggest otherwise (it was he who first demonstrated their importance to me).

Good point about the Insider and I have to admit to not having seen Ali yet but my initial comment is certainly true up to the Insider, though Last of the Mohicans seemed something of a departure for him. I wonder if that was studio politics.

18:48 / 20.09.02

Quote ---->Mann is a piss poor choice for a director for a film with De Nero and Pacino in.

Watch LA Takedown, heat without the budget and the actors, see the difference Pacino and Deniro AND the budget to film the city of LA as another chatacter make. Vast improvement.

Better sidekick in the first one though, but lacking Henry Rollins.

23:57 / 21.09.02

Reidcourchie, for the bonus points : The part when they were in Hank Azaria's office? "..because she's got a huge ass!"

Just taking a stab.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

11:21 / 22.09.02

Correct. The bonus point is yours. Sticks out like a sore thumb doesn't it.

14:32 / 22.09.02

Completeley sticks out.