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Barbelith Agenda: order of business

 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:35 / 23.08.02
Time to speak.

Let's put together a list of global issues, postcard statements of policy, with solutions. No debate in this topic, please, let's keep the list relatively clean, and we can debate pros and cons in their own locations.

Let's see whether we can produce something useful. Maybe we can all sign it and give it to our relative governments. If we can just concentrate on something long enough to do it for once.
 
 
sleazenation
11:12 / 23.08.02
We don't all agree nick, that's kind of the point. Its about how we negotiate those differences.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:17 / 23.08.02
If we can't put together some form of consensus document on (for example) environment, sustainability, international justice, then I see very little that is admirable in our various convictions.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
11:17 / 23.08.02
Aw, man. Debate in the very first post. That hurts.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:29 / 23.08.02
Actually, I was expecting pretty much that reaction from someone. This is what makes consensus politics slow and futile, and revolutions bloody and pointless - even those who should be in approximate accord are unable to approach vital issues without fighting.
 
 
sleazenation
11:32 / 23.08.02
I always saw these debates as just that, debates rather than policy statements. Maybe i'm missing the point of this entire thread. Its your thread nick - why not give us an example of your proposed solution to a problem?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:44 / 23.08.02
Okay, maybe I didn't make myself clear. Everyone, anyone: pick a topic you think is a world issue which needs to be addressed. Do a little research - just enough to touch the major issues, not enough to swamp, and give us up to one hundred words explaining problem and possible solution, with links.

Anyone wants to disagree, set up a new thread.

I don't want to propose the first one because I don't want to control this topic, I want to start it and then join in. Ideally I'd like to see posts quickly from the thousand-odd registered members whose names I don't know.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:13 / 23.08.02
Nick: I think I see the kind of thing you're trying to do here, and I think it's a really great concept. However, your initial post was a shade on the sketchy side (to me, at least) and you seem a little dismissive (defensive?) How 'bout a fuller explanation of what, exactly, you were hoping to achieve here?

Okay, to see if I've got the general idea, I'll chuck in a topic.

Worry: The housing crisis in London. House prices are rocketing and the city is becoming ever more crowded, with all the problems that entails.

My solution would be: Firstly, move the city's economy away from higher-paid sectors (largely the financial services sector) and into industries that paid lower wages-- production, R&D, ect. This would lower house prices, reduce demand for luxury accomodations, etc. Secondly, regenerate regions where there is low demand so that fewer people flee to the capital.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
15:54 / 24.08.02
The problem with this proposition as forwarded is that it solicits far too specific issues. Just today I've been writing about the fallacy in Western thought being that we are far too much of a reactive people, with woefully little brain activity devoted to addressing the cause of effects. There IS a unified field theory to society. There are larger issues that need to be taken care of for a cascade effect to be apparent.

At the same time, some of the best change you can make is to yourself. None of us want to think that there's anything wrong with the way in which we live and view the world, but there is, period. And in order for our actions to reflect the selfless aims of people who want the best for all, we have to BE those people. Not all of us will make it that far, including myself. We will have to become someone else entirely. You may have to sever all ties to those you know, discard what you have, utterly divorce yourself from what it is that defines who you are now to become who you must be if you're really going to pursue this. I don't know that I can. I don't know that I can't. Each comes with its heartbreaks. Each will make you happy in different ways, and neither is necessarily better than the other. You may be jailed. You may be killed. It will be a war so utterly inconceivable to the traditional definition of war, in that it will truly be a war to end war: international, class, racial, cultural. Like the Jews freed from Egypt, we might not be allowed to pass into the Promised Land, because we will have the memory of being slaves to the old way. Are you all right with the possibility that you will never get to see what you fight for, that the rest of your life might be nothing but struggle so that those who come after will know only peace and contentment? In the end, are you simply fucking about with this romantic image of rebellion and change, or are you willing to play the Death card? I don't have an answer to these questions yet. Do you?
 
 
Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes
18:23 / 24.08.02
Shut down the World trade Organisation. The fact that countries can challenge the laws of other countries is absurd. Many countries are under the grip of large corporations. For a body to be able to wipe away the hard fought rights of some states to benefit free trade plain wrong. The loosening of trading restrictions does not benefit the poorer countries, only the corporations. Reign in the powers of corporations; prevent any attempts to give more power to corporate institutions than to people.

To follow on from Mordant, I think that a northern assembly would be a good idea to divert power from the South East/London.

Vladimir, I disagree with you on many points, but I don’t think that this is the topic for this discussion. Start a new thread.
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:01 / 25.08.02
Abolish national borders, citizenship and residency requirements, and migration laws. Thus abolishing internment camps here, murderous discrimination against undocumented migrants everywhere, the global division of labour, and capitalist accumulation. Apologies for putting the solution ahead of the problem.
 
 
rizla mission
09:41 / 25.08.02
The Problem: various groups of people with far too many guns and bombs using them to kill various other groups of people who may or may not have same. Unscrupulous people making far too much $$$ trading in said guns and bombs.

The Solution: A big international treaty, to be signed by everyone, outlawing the manufacture/sale of arms and enforcing a dramatic (or total) reduction in government military/'defense' spending. Countries that don't sign it (this'll have to be before we destroy the concept of nation states) will be universally shunned and trade embargoed.

There'd still be war of course, but at least people would be threatening each other with point-ed sticks rather than carpet bombing and imminent nuclear holocaust..

Utopian? me?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:15 / 25.08.02
Problem- increasing centralisation, in botht the corporate and (inter)national spheres. Leading to, in the first case, monopoly/exploitation, and in the second, increased global rivalry to be the last great superpower, and a corresponding increase in the risk of a really unpleasant end to it all.

Solution- Either a) decentralise (well, duh.) Not sure how this would happen, unfortunately. or b), in the international sphere, Crunchy's "no borders" idea.

Btw... like the idea, Nick. But, as you say, it would be good to see some responses from people who don't already post here a lot. Come on, guys!
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:14 / 26.08.02
Vlad: The problem with this proposition as forwarded is that it solicits far too specific issues.

No, that's its strength. This is a post intended to get us away from the endless Barbelith theorising, and into some concrete examples and claims. Crit elsewhere, please.
 
 
Fist Fun
17:54 / 26.08.02
Global standards for education, health and welfare funded by global taxation.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:14 / 26.08.02
Land MINES...

The world is populated with MIllions of Landmines that are no longer relavant... Turn the US ARMY into a Global Clean-up/disaster relief organisation!!!
 
 
tango88
14:55 / 09.09.02
The problem: Americans have become ignorant of the reason their country exists and also the rampant manipulation of middle eastern affairs by the CIA.

The solution: Fly a plane into the white house...? A group of individuals plan to travel to Iraq to act as human shields in protest over the coming war. To me, this seems like an interesting way to challenge public opinion. As for the first problem, if this could be solved, the second one would not exist in the first place.
 
  
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