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A Humdinger Of An Ethical Pickle

 
 
Murray Hamhandler
20:08 / 19.08.02
So okay. You'll probably be able to figure out where I'm going w/this before I'm done, but bear w/my obviousness.

It seems that a month or so ago, a small, independently-owned music store in my town that I love quite dearly was robbed. Big time. Like, a couple hundred CD's big time. The owner gave me the jist: apparently, the perp had been caught and jailed when he tried to sell his goods to music stores in another town (stores that had already been alerted about the robbery). He was someone that had been a customer of Tom's (the owner) for years and was someone that Tom trusted and never thought would do anything like this. I felt terrible for him, knowing that the store was his livelihood and knowing how it felt to have one's trust so thoroughly trampled. But I was glad at the very least that Tom was able to get some of his merchandise back and that the thief had been caught and was going to have to deal w/the consequences of his actions.

Okay.

So there's a new guy at my work (let's call him Jim) that I've been talking to and getting kind of friendly with. I already invited Jim to this housewarming party that my roommate and I are having soon (and I rarely do much w/co-workers outside of work). However (and I think you know where this is going), my manager told me today that she found out a little something about the new guy. She asked Jim if he knew why his previous employers had said that they would never rehire him, and he told her about his bout as a petty thief. He apparently swiped a company car from his previous place of employment and used it as the getaway vehicle in the theft of the aforementioned music store. After getting caught and being arrested, Jim went to the store and confessed to Tom about the theft and offered to pay him back, and Tom agreed not to press charges against him. Jim was apparently desperate for money, being way in debt, and this was apparently the first (and supposedly only) time that he had done anything like this.

And this is where I come in. I liked Jim before I found out about all of this, but I've had a real mad on for a while for the invisible somebody who was responsible for the robbery. I admittedly have sketchy feelings about some forms of theft (in relation to big institutions, for instance), but I think that theft on this level, where it directly and adversely affects the livelihood and the trust of an individual, especially someone who already trusts the person in question, is reprehensible. However, Tom has apparently forgiven him, to some extent at least. And my manager is giving Jim a chance at a job despite his past. I personally don't think that I dislike Jim now, but I definitely don't trust him at all, and I'm definitely not going to have him over at my house now. The problem is, my manager wasn't really supposed to tell me all of this. And since no charges were ever formally pressed, there's really no reason that I should know anything about Jim's involvement in the incident. I don't want to let on that my manager (who I'm quite fond of) told me about all of this, but I don't think I can just let it slide. So I don't know how I should react towards Jim now (especially since he's supposed to be paying Tom back a lot of money and just blew most of his first paycheck on DVD's). I have to work w/him for at least another couple of weeks knowing what I know, alternating between liking him on a personal level and knowing what he did.

So, troopers...what would you do in this situation? Because I am at a loss...
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
20:16 / 19.08.02
What do you think you would achieve by either letting him know that you know what he doesn't think you know or by alienating him?
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
20:51 / 19.08.02
Well, it's not a matter of wanting to alienate him or anything. It's just that I hardly know him and now I don't trust him at all. It's a bit of a stumbling block in even a work relationship, let alone where befriending him is concerned.
 
 
w1rebaby
21:02 / 19.08.02
Coward's way out: can you manufacture another reason for not associating with the guy?

I mean, I know, in the end it's better to be honest etc etc, but if it's only going to last a few weeks anyway it doesn't seem worth it.

Besides, the possibility exists that he may well be a criminal arse, particularly considering the DVD thing, and you should keep an eye on him. Maybe inform your manager. I'm not in a generous forgiving mood these days and I personally would err on the side of caution.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:09 / 19.08.02
That is pretty cinematic. I don't know what the fuck I'd do, except watch this chap like a hawk that was wearing top-secret experimental military issue goggles.

And yet, and yet... there's this: he's supposed to be paying Tom back a lot of money and just blew most of his first paycheck on DVD's

Something sort of gets between my back teeth when I read that. It's either last night's spinach or a symptom of fundamental not-giving-a-shitness, and I didn't eat spinach last night.
 
 
Ganesh
22:31 / 19.08.02
I suspect I'd engineer a series of conversations in which I gradually talked more and more about my liking for certain types of music and led around to my favourite independent music store. This would give Jim the chance to either a) spontaneously confess to you, enabling you to talk more directly to him re: plans to pay Tom back, or b) decide he'd better hang back a little because he's too ashamed to be around you. If he failed to do either, I think I'd get pretty angry and would have no real problem freezing him out.
 
 
Bad Horse
22:49 / 19.08.02
I have no problem cutting contact with scumbags who do things that really offend me. Do you owe him anything, even an explanation? Drop him like a stone, you don't have to be friends to work with some one.

I've been ripped off by gits like him in the past, worse I've seen my friends dragged into situations with dodgy people and be ripped off. Don't let it happen, if he demands and explanation tell him 'rumour has it...' or 'someone I trust let on that...'

Don't feel guilt about protecting you and yours.
 
 
Mazarine
02:06 / 20.08.02
I'd say to avoid getting your manager in trouble, just keep fabricating excuses until he stops trying to hang out with you, Deric. Work it like a cliche break up.
 
 
the Fool
02:53 / 20.08.02
he's supposed to be paying Tom back a lot of money and just blew most of his first paycheck on DVD's

I have a friend who has done a similar thing to me. I lent this person a lot of money. In the end it amounted to about $1000 AUS.

Rather than pay me back, he bought the entire Buffy video collection. I think his thinking on the subject was that I earn quite a bit more than him, so I don't really need the money. And it was such a large amount he'd prefer to pay it back in one lot, but since he doesn't earn that much he can't (won't) or thinks that he doesn't have too until he earns more. He keeps reminding me that he will pay me back, one day when (blah blah fishcakes...). In the meantime Buffy is more important...

He also managed to rack up debts with a few other people.

I still like him, I'll just never lend him a thing again.
 
 
SMS
04:02 / 20.08.02
Of course, you now know that you cannot trust your manager to confidential information. I might talk to hir about doing this kind of thing.

Does Tom have a legally binding piece of paper that says this other guy is supposed to be paying him back?
 
 
Turk
04:23 / 20.08.02
Fuhgeddaboutit!
 
 
Shortfatdyke
07:01 / 20.08.02
Hmm; pacing up and down, thinking about this one.

I've never been in scary amounts of debt. I don't know how horrible or desperate I'd be if I was. People do crummy things when they're pushed into a corner. Then again, ripping off a small store - especially where the owner is known to you - that's pretty galling. I grew up with quite a strong sense of 'you don't steal from your own'.

That being said, if the bloke had agreed to pay Tom back, and did so, then that seems the rightful thing to do, and I personally would then give him a chance. However, the fact that he appears to be taking the piss, means that I wouldn't give him the time of day. I would consider that Tom deserves more than that, and of course I'm going by my own experiences of being ripped off by people I was doing favours for, and, most recently, seeing my ex save her flatmate from being made homeless, only to be repaid by the woman legging it with £250 of her money.

How would Tom feel if he knew 'Jim' was buying DVDs instead of paying him back?
 
 
Justin Brief
09:14 / 20.08.02
"I grew up with quite a strong sense of 'you don't steal from your own'. "

Not criticising that comment per se, but tangentially: aren't all socio-economic subsets a wee bit guilty of this? I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that the English 'upper-classes' are conditioned from public school onwards to shamelessly steal from the 'lower classes' whenever possible. Recent conversations with a sloanish PR girl who stole lucrative ideas from me with considerable guile have brought these ideas to a head on a profoundly personal level.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:47 / 20.08.02
Not sure where I'd stand on the whole thing personally...

but surely a lot of the choice as to ethical position rests with Tom, as the guy who was ripped off? If he's chosen to forgive him... then again, if he isn't paying him back, then that's a further breach of trust which Tom presumably hasn't wised up to yet.

How well do you know this Tom guy? Could you start chatting to him about your work (not letting on what you know) and this new guy that's started? And see where it goes from there?

God, I hate situations like that. Finding out bad shit about your friends/people you like etc, and having to pretend like you don't know a thing...

do what you feel is right. And good luck.
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
12:25 / 20.08.02
well, ain't this easy.
as i went through billions of debts around me while my life, i don't wanna throw the stone at the face of a guy who seems to prefer spend his few bucks for his pleasure (even if it consists of vampire, blond girls and stupid kung fu kicks) than giving it back to somebody who do'nt seem in financial trouble ; yeah, it's pretty antirespectful of the people who used to help you, and it's bad. but i did the same, so don't count on me for condamn this huy.
now, i share the same feelings of many people here, i suppose.
i don't have any trouble thinking of stealing from big corporations or shit like that ; but stealing from little shops, where it's not this easy to survive for the most part, is for sure something deadly wrong ; and stealing from somebody you know is bad with a fuckin big "b".
i think that waiting to talk is something wrong.
when something turn in your mind, the best thing to do is thinking more and more about it untill you got to let it go outside ; maybe you can try to find the good words for don't look like the mother/father/authority around, just somebody who really like this jim, enough to help him finding way to restaure bad situations/bad thoughts people around can get of him. i dunno. not this easy.
 
  
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