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The English

 
 
Justin Brief
22:57 / 13.08.02
A young lady friend of mine, who is Welsh and perfectly charming, has just returned from holiday in England with an English friend. While there, she found almost all of the English to be rude, miserable and generally unfriendly.

What of it, you might ask? One person's bad holiday; no reason to start stereotyping an entire nation's national characteristics.

The crux of the issue is that I myself once lived in England, and while listening to her sad story, experienced a disconcerting deja vu. Any attempt at conversation cruelly deflated. Constant references to 'bloody taffies' from people who've never met any Welshmen. An obsession with foreigners, bordering on insanity. A horrendous, spoilt, chinless, nepotistic and incestuous culture.

A dour, depressing, anti-intellectual miasma, hanging over every trip to the pub, every walk in the park. The feeling that Jonathan Coe, far from over-grotesquing, has merely held a mirror up to the finest characters that England has to offer.

Am I just unlucky in English love? Is my friend? Has anyone else shared these experiences? Are the English truly as miserable as these limited experiences would suggest? Or are they really the jolly, bowler hatted, chummy types that postcards and PG Wodehouse would have us believe?

Terry and June or To the Manor Born?
 
 
Ganesh
23:04 / 13.08.02
OPPRESSORS!
 
 
paw
23:08 / 13.08.02
is n.ireland/ireland next?
 
 
paw
23:10 / 13.08.02
i should be a diplomat at stormont
 
 
Justin Brief
23:10 / 13.08.02
Probably.

To back up my criticism of they feckin' c**ts, some words from that marvellous website, The Idler:


Town/Village: Brighton

Brighton seems to labour under the misapprehension that it is Barcelona, a collective illusion reinforced by the constant crowing from the council about being a "beautiful city by the sea".

Half of it is dirty, noisy and packed to the gunnels with self-important superficial nasty young fashion victims with walkie-talkies with "ironic" ringtones. These are the students, "new media" and itinerant soi-disant shitneck pseudo-intellectuals.

The other half is an ordinary grimy south east town with council estates and young mums with lovebites and screaming kids and cod-eyed young men drenched in aftershave and cheap gold. Roaming up and down the seafront on a Friday night, looking for someone from the other half to smack in the mouth.

James

The students fill the pebbled beaches and bars, the elderly shuffle along like gassed soldiers back from the trenches and diddycoys surge back and forth on the pier.

I have no idea why the pier is so famous, it stinks of deep fried donuts, stale lager and the Great Unwashed. It's rammed full of brats on one hand, who shriek and fight and get clouted by their enormously fat mums, or middle class types who seem to be enjoying the working class treats of the pier in an 'ironic' and 'knowing' manner, which frankly makes any right thinking person grind their teeth with rage and wonder if it would be a sin to drown the little studenty, yellow sunglasses wearing, Green Flash trainered bastards. And why do they all carry record bags anyway? Fools.

Go to Brighton, have a laugh by all means. But it isn't the Mecca of English cool. OK?

Finlay Coutts-Britton

BRIGHTON DEFENDED!

Firstly: "gunnel" is spelt "gunwhale", they are called mobile phones, not "walkie-talkies", and I can't even imagine what an "ironic ring tone" would be. Look up irony in the dictionary for god's sake. Also "soi-disant" means "self named", not "so called". Who would refer to themself as a "shitneck pseudo intellectual" other than someone who has managed to cram so many idiocies in one sentence, while thinking they are being literate?

Furthermore the pier is so famous precisely because "it stinks of deep fried donuts (sic), stale lager and the Great Unwashed (sic)", and the reason that the "middle class types" (types??) appear to be inexplicably enjoying "the working class treats", is that they are not stuck up, or insecure about their social status and are actually enjoying themselves. Again, look up irony in the dictionary, then get your head out of your arse.

I will say one of the best things about Brighton is the distinct lack of double-barrelled "right thinking people", and if the tackiness of some aspects of the place serves to keep you away, that's just perfect, thank you very much.

You just keep on thinking it's crap. Everyone who lives there loves it, and I won't even start to tell you why, just so we can keep it to ourselves.

Jim

TWICE!


Clearly your critics have only spent a few passing days here and probably spent most of it on the seafront or in 'The Lanes'. Here you are able to see people who fit into the horrible stereotypes of your first correspondent's piece nicely. Yes Brighton has poor people. It also has students. And kids. And up-their-arse trendy types. Yes it has pseudo-avant-garde areas ... and yes, there are even council houses here.

Sounds a bit like London to me ...

What we also have in this fantastic city is SEASIDE. No matter
what you say about the naff pier and the crap doughnuts, nothing beats heading down to the sea on a sunny afternoon and quaffing a cold beer whilst contemplating the horizon. And on a wild winter's day you can watch the waves that have travelled thousands of miles across the ocean come crashing up on the shore. You can't beat it.

Add to that: people who are friendly - smile at you for no reason, are happy to chat and pass the time of day; cosy, welcoming, reasonably-priced pubs on the corner of almost every block; Fatboy Slim doing a monthly residency on your doorstep and some of the best club nights in the country; a football team that has been promoted twice in the last 2 years; shops that aren't just part of some huge multi-national corporate machine but are run by real people who care about what they are selling you; and did I mention the sea?

Brighton rocks - and anyone who thinks it's crap is just suffering from a bad, sad dose of cynicism.

Tamsin

BRIGHTON ROCKS!

It rocks and is defo the best city in UK not the worst...

If you don't like a young vibrant place with lots to do in terms of pubs, clubs, art, sailing, with rock climbing near by... Don't go, everyone I've ever met who lives there loves it...

Stephen Holmes

To defend Brighton, or to nominate your own crap town, send us an email




Town/Village: London

It's over-rated.
It's over-priced.
It does not swing.
It does, moreover, have lots of rain.
It has a preponderance of unpleasant locals in every walk of life.

And worst of all, one's friends go there in search of fame and fortune, only to vanish completely, trapped in a terrible vortex of debt and job insecurity, and one never sees them again.

Once upon a dark yesteryear I lived in Scotland, occasionally enduring a 12-hour bus ride from Aberdeen for a "fun weekend" in London. The worst thing about the bus journey, however, for all its horrors (eg. Milton Keynes in the middle of the night), was right at the end, encountering the pathetic gaggle of old Jimmies who would cluster at Victoria, hoping some fellow Scot fresh from home would take pity on them and give them a couple of quid for tea or Tennants.

"Mate, what are you doing here?" I once asked one. "Go home, they're much nicer."

Iain Scott
(Australia)

LONDON DEFENDED!

John Hasler writes:

First off only 40% of Londoners are born there so the idea of a 'preponderance of locals' is preposterous. It is the mad influx that keeps the place full up and expensive but there's always a price for success. It is the same influx that keeps the place alive and well. Where else would you get primary schools with pupils from 78 different countries?

London is one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world and most areas have a large mix of race and class. There are very few ghettoes in london and cultural entertainment is global in origin. As for 'swinging' you're better off going to basildon for that sort of party....

Nick J writes:

What is this man Scott talking about? London is where it all is. There is always something new and different to see in London. Who was it who said "he who tires of London tires of life itself?" [it was Johnson, everyone knows that] This is SO true.

Yes it is expensive but that's cos its absolutely brilliant and well worth it. Yes booze is expensive but travelling on the buses, which are fine really, is cheap cheap. Yes housing is overpriced but it is just obeying basic economics, people are willing to pay to live in London because it's so great. Do I have to go on?

!!!!! phew!!

SAMUEL JOHNSON ATTACKED!

He who tires of London tires of going to a bar in Clapham that only serves bottled beers at £5, and which looks like like someone's front room.

Simon Sharp

To defend London, or to nominate your own crap town, send us an email





Town/Village: Bath

Essentially a retirement town with an unpleasant amount of students.

Shit pubs full of suited rugby thugs, expensive housing, a mixture of clueless middle class students and Twerton roughnecks.

Most of the locals are drug addicts and spend most of their time drinking and watching TV. The rest either waste their pitiful lives away skateboarding, wanking - or dreaming of winning the lottery. Like spoilt children, many find themselves unable to leave the cloying grasp and safety of this mediocre piss bowl. Thus there is an abundance of people approaching 30 still living at home and getting stoned every night.

Music is banned and there is a law stating that all clubs must be situated below ground, have dripping ceilings and serve expensive, flat water. Even its revered Georgian architecture has been attacked by a particularly short sited and mean spirited local council - the centre of this beautiful city is basically a concrete trench lined with McDonalds and vicious teenagers idly playing with lock knives and fingering their sisters.

In the summer it fills to the brim with loud American and European tourists who clog the narrow streets like the coagulated grease in a Scotsman's arteries. In the winter the only escape is incest and the insistent call of the bong.

James

To defend Bath or to nominate your own crap town, send us an email
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:20 / 13.08.02
The English are OK, some of them, it's like anywhere else really. I spend six months a year living in Cardiff and generally find it a very nice place but walking down the street you'll get a small amount of Welsh nationalists who don't like you because you're English. Some people won't like you because you're a student and others won't like you because Wales lost the rugby to England earlier in the day.

England has a very different national spirit to Wales, when I moved to Cardiff the first thing I recognised was that people bump in to you in the street all the time. The Welsh cannot turn sideways when walking down a busy street or through a crowd but they always always hold a door open for you.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
01:57 / 14.08.02
"Are the English truly as miserable as these limited experiences would suggest? Or are they really the jolly, bowler hatted, chummy types that postcards and PG Wodehouse would have us believe?"

Because, obviously, those are the only two options open to anyone from England.

"A dour, depressing, anti-intellectual miasma, hanging over every trip to the pub, every walk in the park. The feeling that Jonathan Coe, far from over-grotesquing, has merely held a mirror up to the finest characters that England has to offer."

Something tells me you didn't get out much when you lived in England.

Where's Flyboy when you need him?
 
 
Turk
04:10 / 14.08.02
I'd like to comment on how this is an impressively stupid topic, but I suppose that wouldn't exactly combat any of the ridiculous notions that led to you even asking those questions.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:41 / 14.08.02
Oh, don't worry about it. It's probably just Planet of Sound seeking attention in his new fast automatic fictionsuit.
 
 
GreenMann
13:37 / 14.08.02
Well Justine, I'm sorry u've had such a difficult experience with the English, but i'm afraid that u r right - they do seem to be PLAIN MISERABLE.

I'm born in England from Irish parents, so i can see this problem from "both sides of the fence" so to speak. I have also lived abroad in Europe for long periods of time. While in Europe i realised that the basic quality of life indicators (housing, transport, health, education, employment conditions, food) are shit here compared to most countries in Europe, DESPITE the enormous wealth that the rich have here. Yes, there IS an obssession with foreigners, what i call a "superiority complex" which i believe is a hangover from the recently lost empire. So, a combination of factors that would make any population thoroughly miserable. I've only one gripe with the English: STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE!!!!
 
 
Bill Posters
15:28 / 14.08.02
Two World Wars and One World Cup, doodah, doodah...
 
 
Re-Set
16:10 / 14.08.02
I'm just a Yankee, so it probably doesn't mean much, but while in England I encountered more friendly and helpful people than I have anywhere else in my travels, including my own country (Italy, a van driver rolled me across his hood for not crossing the road quickly enough for him, but that's a different thread). I danced with waitresses and had a pair of glasses fixed at 6:30 on a Sunday for the eqivalent of $1.50, unthinkable on the East Coast.

Of course, I bear an incredibly wasp-ish name and most of my friends think I'm pretty dour and miserable.
 
  
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