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Underground > Radio & Music >

Who's the devil?

pointless and uncalled for

19:06 / 10.08.02

Once again the hue and cry is in it's regular swing in the music world. Half seeking to have Eminem tarred and feathered, the other half a little more quiet in trying to defend a variety of so-called freedoms. Such is the case that I feel the need to rant and no doubt be smacked back by those more grey-mattery than myself.

So blindly onwards.

How bad do you think Mr. Mathers really is? I won't for a moment deny that he has made statements that are without question homophobic, mysogynistic and a variety of other ills. However, I think that there is something to be said about character portray here. From paying attention to the music instead of following hype I see that this comes from his characterisation of Slim Shady rather than from himself and, while it's not been a regular explanation he has been very clear on the division of this character from himself as a person. If we hang this man for portrayal of a bad character, should we then do so for all actors who have taken the roll of equally vilifyable people? I would doubt that many of you would say yes. In interviews he acquits himself well, even if what he says is rarely paid attention to. I think you'll find he is far more guilty of trollng for reactionarys than anything else.

Futher to this I see far greater evil in other places that the media and the reactionariat leave largely untouched. Perfect case example being the video for Escape by Enrique Iglesias. Here we see very clear depiction of him portraying himself making advances on a woman who repeatedly refuses with quite some vigour, until he grabs her by the hand, drags her into the womens washroom of a club and forces himself on her to a chorus of "You can't escape my love". This works quite nicely it sould seem as she suddenly changes tack and decides she likes this. Is this somehow acceptable behaviour? Or, as I feel, is this actaully far worse? Especially as this is typical, common and widespread throughout pop music.

Potrayal of a bad person vs. perpetuation of outdated and oppressive gender values?

06:48 / 11.08.02

Or does Eminem hide behind the 'fact' that he is 'portraying a character' to get away with his hideous attitudes? Would he portray a character that was anti-Semitic or racist, or does he choose easy targets that don't have much in the way of legal protection? The gay community is pretty convinced that Eminem is queer, such is his repeated insistence of how much he hates us. One day he'll come out and all this nonsense will be over. But it's interesting to see how people like Madonna and publications like 'Time Out' fawn around the man - I can't help feeling that, scratch away the surface, many liberals still hate queers and are relieved to have an outlet for it. Homophobia and misogyny sells records. Whoopee!

And why does it have to be an either/or situation? I haven't seen the video for 'Escape' but by all accounts (and from seeing the lyrics), it's quite dodgy.

The enemy takes many forms.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

08:53 / 11.08.02

To be honest, Eminem bores me now. I've tried listening to his albums (which my sister owns and which I really must talk to her sometime to find out why) and find them rather dull. '98 Bonnie and Clyde' or whatever makes me think of someone waving their dick around in public to shock (although I quite like Tori Amos' cover of it).

To me his songs only work with the videos, something like 'The Real Slim Shady' is exceptionally dull without the images.

And no-one is going to dare to kick Eminem until he's down. Two reasons. If the NME did an interview with Eminem in which they rip into him and argue with him over his attitute, all those little Stan's who think it's them he raps about in 'The Real Slim Shady' will never buy NME. More importantly, Eminem will never speak to them again either, and his management may well boycott them for any other artists they represent.

Marilyn Manson's star is falling now, so it's safe to criticise the panto-king even though he's far more intelligent, witty and literate than lil' Marshall.

10:08 / 11.08.02

The gay community is pretty convinced that Eminem is queer, such is his repeated insistence of how much he hates us. One day he'll come out and all this nonsense will be over.

Its late here and Im having trouble telling if this is sarcasm or not. If yr serious could you please explain how exactly that works. And whats the deal with Elton John?

I can't help feeling that, scratch away the surface, many liberals still hate queers and are relieved to have an outlet for it.

This is probably true & deserving of a thread of its own in one of the other forums. A friend of mine told me that she liked it better in the south because "down there they call you a nigger, here they try to shake your hand." Im not sure that Eminems lyrics appeal to "liberals" any more than they appeal to "conservatives", though.

Homophobia and misogyny sells records.

Not on their own they don't. I think its kind of hard to deny that Eminem is a talented lyricist even if you don't like what hes saying.

Ladas right, no one is going to kick him till hes down. And the only thing that can bring him down is a weak record. The minute he reins himself in, or gives someone else final say on his albums, hes through. But it doesnt look like thats going to happen anytime soon.

pointless and uncalled for

16:14 / 11.08.02

I admit that this was more of a half-hearted attempt to look at the whole Eminem controversy at a different angle. Despite the relative claims I remain unconvinced about him being gay. It's not that I think it's wishful thinking but overall it doesn't seem to pan out.

I'm not exactly an Eminem fan but I can see the talent and credibility, be it misdirected or not. What angers me most about the whole deal is the manner in which the media seeks easy demonisation and refuses to apply the same standards to those more known for pandering to the camera.

Professor Silly

18:06 / 11.08.02

I think Eminem has a LOT in common with Elvis Presley.

Both took a prodominately "African-American" art form and made it okay for white America to join in.

Here's what I like about Eminem: He has great flow to his verses.
Here's what I don't like: His choruses are so repetitive that they drill into my head, so that by the time I've heard a song once I NEVER WANT TO HEAR IT AGAIN.

None-the-less, someone put him on the sound system last night at the tattoo shop (I waited outside, refusing to work until it was over) and all the little shaved-head white boys were ecstatic--moving their arms in a monkey fashion..."aping" just what they've seen on MTV. Eminem makes no qualms about this--he's said in interviews that the only reason he's as popular as he is boils down to his "safe skin color."

On the Elvis side of the coin, it gives me boiling rage to think about how he ripped off the better rockers that came before (Chuck Berry, Little Richard) and became "the King"...all because of his "safe skin color." I think this man lived his life in the shadow of creativity, and that someday we'll all realize this and burn his little amusement park to the ground.

So hey--maybe Eminem's career will follow the same pattern--he'll get less and less exposure, he'll stage a great comeback, he'll get fat and old playing shows in Las Vegas and then die on the toilet. People will then worship him for a short time, finally moving on with their lives.

Alright you Elvis-lovers--bring it!

21:30 / 11.08.02

Not an Elvis lover but Im gonna bring it anyway...

Both Eminem and Elvis had a love for an "African-American" art form and used it as their artistic medium, not knowing where it would lead them. Even if they hadn't found fame and fortune they would have been shaking their hips and spitting rhymes about the ghetto because thats what they liked to do. It only becomes an issue when they outsell their black contemporaries or recieve undue credit from the media and/or the public. Does anyone really think that Elvis thought he invented anything? Im sure he had idols too.

As far as Eminem making it "okay for white America to join in" the rap game: The Beasties beat him to the punch by more than a decade.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

09:07 / 12.08.02

Yes, but I think the Beasties were effectively 'underground' or 'alternative' for the first half of their career, I don't recall them getting much airplay over here other than 'Fight for Your Right' until Radio 1 actually stopped playing Chris Rea and the Quo.