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"Comics that aren't about straight white men"

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
22:10 / 04.08.02
Because I think shortfatdyke has a point... This isn't intended to be a thread in which people recommend comics which don't have *any* straight white men in them, just ones that don't *entirely* revolve around protagonists who fall into that criteria. We could maybe even make it more general - let's say that this thread is dedicated to comics which might appeal to people who don't visit the Comics Forum very often, if at all...

I'll start with the delightful Hopeless Savages: Ground Zero, from - yes! - Oni Press.

Jen Van Meter's punk rock family returns for a second go-around at this comic book thing. The youngest Hopeless-Savage, Zero, has developed her first crush-on the sweet, smart boy in science class. Unfortunately, the fates seem to be conspiring to keep them a apart, as a series of mishaps gets her confined to her home (hence the title, Hopeless Savages: Ground Zero). How can she spark a romance when someone's taken away the matches? Joining Jen for this series is new cover artist Terry Dodson (Harley Quinn) and interior artist Bryan O'Malley. But don't fear! The original artists are also hanging around. Andi Watson will contribute art to the flashback sequence in #1, while Christine Norrie and Chynna Clugston-Major will return for later issues.

The original Hopeless Savages mini-series introduced us to the Hopeless-Savage family (the retired punk rocker parents whose names I can't remember, wise elder brother Rat, recently returned from ill-advised career in corporate coffee hell, gay mod brother Twitch, kick-ass sister Arsenal and Zero). This mini-series concentrates more on Zero Savage, specifically on her troubled school, home and love lives... It's smart, funny, cute without being cutesy, and the characters grow on you like a rash. It'll strike chords with people's own lives while at the same time doing what comics arguably do best - portraying a world and a group of people who aren't like anything you've ever seen before... Plus Van Meter seems to have a knack for getting talented, distinctive artists to work with her (the 'flashback' device works particularly well).

Issues 1 & 2 are out now, and should both be easy to find in any comic shop that doesn't deserve a good burningdown. There should also be a trade eventually, and in the meantime you can also pick up the first HS series as a neatly-sized trade. Black 'n' white punk rock grrl adventures GO!

Your turn. And no whining about the thread title please, phattybeards.
 
 
bio k9
22:18 / 04.08.02
Another link to my review of Stray Bullets.
 
 
Mazarine
23:33 / 04.08.02
I'm still gathering Hopeless-Savages (poverty), but it rocks. Another project on which Chynna Clugston-Major worked is Blue Monday. Haven't read much of it, but it's hilarious and cute from what I've seen.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
07:20 / 05.08.02
cable
 
 
The Natural Way
08:10 / 05.08.02
Ummm. Ghost World. Written by a straight, white guy though.
 
 
sleazenation
08:20 / 05.08.02
Berlin by Jason Lutes - set in between the wars Berlin, it charts the lives of its citizens as the wiemar republic slowly disintegrates into 'national socialism'. Altthough a story defined by straight white men its subject are the diverse lives of its inhabitants and how they slowly (or not so slowly) change with the rise of fascism.
 
 
DaveBCooper
10:34 / 05.08.02
Off the top of my haircut :

Strangers in Paradise
Black Panther
Catwoman
Birds of Prey
Batgirl
Martha Washington – Give Me Liberty, MW Goes to War, MW Saves the World (Have I got those titles right?)
Promethea
Blue Monday
Stuck Rubber Baby
Joe Sacco’s Palestine or Safe Area Gorazde
Yslaire’s Cloud 99 series
Death: The Time of Your Life
Love and Rockets

All right, I’m out.

DBC
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:44 / 05.08.02
Nota bene - Although the titles above are not about straight white men, some are about large-breasted straight white women in skintight outfits. Oh, and "Death: The Time of Your Life" is a) about a white, straight man and b) his wank fantasy. YMMV, basically.

Blue Monday is lovely - a story about growing up as a britpop-obsessed teen in early 90s America, centring on the friendship between cardboard Oirishwoman and yank ingenue. It's better than it sounds, really. Although a lot of it is about having crushes on boys...

Website is here.

Blue Monday was also a featured strip in Action Girl, an anthology comic written by women and edited by Sarah Dyer (Space Ghost: Coast to Coast). Although seemingly defunct, the 20-odd issues of this that did come out are a fascinatng grab-bag, and the Action Girl paper dolls are to die for.

One of the discoveries from Action Girl was the enormously lucid, cartoonish linework of Elizabeth Watashin, who as a non-white woman in comics must pretty much have her own room at ComiCon. "Charm School", about the continuing love affair between a lesbian Sabrina and a butch-dyke vampire, reads like a sexed-up Trina Robbins at times, happily grabbing and scattering tropes from folklore and the ideal world of the 50s sit-com with approximately equal abandon.

Unfortunately, the irregularity of Watashin's work and the death of Action Girl demonstrate one very big problem with comics not featuring white, straight men. Nobody buys them.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:19 / 05.08.02
I beg to differ.
Death : The High Cost of Living is about a white, straight teenager.
Death : The Time of Your Life is about lesbian parents Hazel and Foxglove struggling to cope with things such as parenthood and Foxglove’s music career.
Which is why I suggested that one.

DBC
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:35 / 05.08.02
Surely the Death comics are the fantasy of a white, Gai man, Haus?

Ahahahahahaha. Aifankyew.

Anyway, I should have added the caveat that I don't just want lists - DaveBC, choose a couple of the titles you name and tell us *why* they might appeal to people who don't usually post in this forum (and if anyone thinks there isn't a larger proportion of s.w.m. in this forum than some of the others on the board, check y'self and then check again). Same youse, Runce. And yawn, if you can rise beyond taking the piss for a moment.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:49 / 05.08.02
DaveBCooper is, of course, quite correct. D:TTOYL is indeed about lesbian parents Foxglove and Hazel. It is, however, also so astonishingly bad that I had wiped it from my memory along with the way the shopkeeper used to make me play tridents.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:58 / 05.08.02
Happy to elucidate on a couple (sorry, didn't mean to derail by listing):

From Cloud 99: Memories by Yslaire is a series (two large format volumes so far) about an old woman who starts to receive e-mails suggesting – amongst other things – that her brother may not have died in the war, as she’d previously believed.
This simple idea expands to take in events from her life (she studied under Freud), the lives of various famous aviators, and – oddly – the notion of a fallen angel. It all swirls together in a way that reminds me vaguely of a David Lynch film; characters overlapping, stories intertwining, that sort of thing.
It’s very nicely paced, with good clear artwork, and the translation’s decent, from what I can gather.
There’s more information at http://www.oniros.com/xxeciel/
(Hope that works, my web-fu is shockingly poor.)

The series Death: The Time Of Your Life features, as noted, two lesbian parents struggling with the stresses of both being parents and being apart as one of them, a musician, is on the road. The ‘supernatural’ element that comes into it doesn’t really overshadow it very much, and some lesbian parent friends of mine liked both the characterisation of the main characters and the fact that Death was a friendly character – something they hadn’t come across before.
The artwork’s pretty easy to follow, the script’s decent, and it’s all available in a single volume.

Palestine by Joe Sacco is a series of interviews and encounters which Sacco had in the titular region, and takes in the life stories of a wide variety of people. The art and the story work well together (thankfully, as Sacco does both, but this isn’t always the way with writer-artists), and it’s good ‘n’ informative about the history and present of the situation. Better than a lot of journalism on the subject, I felt.

DBC
 
 
some guy
13:06 / 05.08.02
Stray Bullets by David Lapham has a lot of female-driven storylines, and most of the male characters don't fall into the traditional stereotypes.

The Invisibles is pretty good at deconstructing comic book gender norms, especially when read as a whole. Dodgy racial presentation, though.

If you're interested in superhero comics featuring small-breasted women, non-traditional men and scant spandex, I'd recommend the first John Romita Jr. run of Uncanny X-Men.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:18 / 05.08.02
Fly: I wasn't taking the piss. At all.

Just making the observation that a shitload of comics (even those that concern themselves w/ something other than manpenis) are scribed by white, hetero men. Which is, as Haus has also pointed out, probably quite relevant to this lovely little chat.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:11 / 05.08.02
The "taking the piss" bit wasn't aimed at you, Runcy - that's what full stops are for.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
18:01 / 05.08.02
sorry miss.

okay - Fever in Urbicande:

it's set in a fictional city called urbicande - a kind of story-space cipher for modernist architecture and it's obsession with irradicating the organic. In the story, the city is split in two, a north bank and a aouth bank. The 'urbatect' primed with maintaining the city has plans to further rationalise the north bank. the south bank is a shanty town of chaos and dirt and energy and and yknow anarchy and stuff.

THe protaganist, the 'urbatect' becomes emeshed within the text when he is given an artifact found on an archaeological dig within the city - an enigmatic lattice cube which was left on his desk (at an angle, half on-half off a book) He examines it then falls asleep. He awakes to see the lattice has grown and trapped his arm within the structure. Time passes.....

The structure continues to grow freeing his arm and needless to say, fascinates the 'hero' no end. It grows and grows (and at a jaunty angle too) until it forms a massive frame across the entire city, uniting both halves; the chaotic and the rational - the citizens decide to investigate the other sides of the city they've never visited before...

So i'd say anyone interested in modernist architecture might be interested in this little number - think of Brasillia - the geo-forms and sculpted whiteness 'tarnished' by the multi-coloured, many-materialed shanty towns clinging to its edges - it's obviously a model for the brain too - every urban organisation is - so any marvin's might want to whet there minskys here too.

The art is in that Euro-style that they all do - bilal, mobio, manara etc. - black and white throughout.

I fobbed it of on a couple of my first year architecture students a couple of years ago and it seemed to do the trick.

The story is okay, the writing is okay, the idea is great and it's panel arrangements are idiot proof.

And the dudes who slap it out are Belgian.

Wallonaise in fact.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
10:48 / 06.08.02
well, what with this and parts of the csi thread, it seems i have a zillion comics to choose from. which is wonderful, and i will take a trip to forbidden planet soon to have a good rummage, knowing, for once, what i actually want to find.

probably asking for trouble here but are the hellraiser comics any good? clive barker was involved (i like his art) i think, so it had promise, but i've not seen them.

by the looks of all the stuff mentioned here, i can't believe how much comics have changed since my younger days. the phrase for today appears to be 'out of touch'.
 
 
sleazenation
10:56 / 06.08.02
I haven't seen the most recent hellraiser stuff, but if his past comics work is much to go on then the answer would be "no, Barker doesn't illustrate his comics"

Actually i'm not certain if he even writes them either or whether he is just the inspirational figurehead. Marvel's Epic Line did some Hellraiser and nightbreed comics in the early ninties while Eclipse produced some brilliant adaptations of his books of blood stories (check comic marts for the eclipse trade featuring the adaptation of the yattering and jack).

Barker even tried his hand at creating a superhero universe in the early ninties in the form of the 'razorline' books, but its only advisable to read them if you activelty have the desire to claw your own eyes out. Yes they were that bad, but again they were written and drawn by people other than barker.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:57 / 06.08.02
They probably haven't changed that much - for every intelligent, black and white examination of the hell that is being in your mid-20s in America (hello Jessica Abel! Didn't see you behind the sofa there...), there are probably twenty or thirty comics in which US Male is still endlessly saving Cleavage Girl from the dong-like deathtraps of Dr. Metaphor...
 
 
No star here laces
12:23 / 06.08.02
Yes and for every intelligent black and white comic about US 20-somethings there are 20 photocopied pieces of crap in which a bunch of dislikeable talking heads drink wine and whinge about jobs and relationships, drawn in a tediously predictable faux-naif style.

This, I suspect, is different. I easily reckon there are more worthless indie comics now than there are worthless superhero ones.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:34 / 06.08.02
I tend to follow the "90% of everything is shit rule", meself.

Indie? Spandex? Mostly shit.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:41 / 06.08.02
If memory serves, the Hellraiser comics stuff was mainly comprised of new short stories based on the idea of the Cenobites, the box, etc. There were some decent creators working on them, and some quite nice painted artwork, but they were short stories, and so tended to fall into the ‘five pages of weirdness plus two pages of oh-look-it-was-the-cenobites-all-along-blood-everywhere’ formula a bit too often.
There’s a new collected edition of them just out recently, so you could have a look and see if it’s your thang.

Sleazenation’s quite right about the adaptations being very good – I think the Eclipse series was called ‘Tapping the Vein’ – though I think that you’d be hard pressed to find them.

I seem to recall Barker did some original comic stuff called ‘Riven’ with … was it D.G.Chichester and some other folks ? Back in the early 90s, I think ? Anyone know if that ever came out, or if it was any good ?

And as far as I know, Barker hasn’t done much, if any, comic art. Which is a bit of a shame, as I’d be interested to see how that would look.

DBC
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:48 / 06.08.02
flyboy, are you listening to all this crap about Hellraiser for %$^&%*^& sake!!!???
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:50 / 06.08.02
Yes and for every intelligent black and white comic about US 20-somethings there are 20 photocopied pieces of crap in which a bunch of dislikeable talking heads drink wine and whinge about jobs and relationships, drawn in a tediously predictable faux-naif style.

Yes....I was kind of joking...
 
 
some guy
15:40 / 06.08.02
for every intelligent, black and white examination of the hell that is being in your mid-20s in America (hello Jessica Abel! Didn't see you behind the sofa there...), there are probably twenty or thirty comics in which US Male is still endlessly saving Cleavage Girl from the dong-like deathtraps of Dr. Metaphor...

But how much of this is perception? Mainstream comics seem to have come a long way, and even top-selling books like NEW X MEN and X-Force are bucking this tired old stereotype. How many books on Diamond's Top 100 really still fit the "US Male is still endlessly saving Cleavage Girl from the dong-like deathtraps of Dr. Metaphor" thing?
 
 
Mazarine
16:28 / 06.08.02
Jesus, how could I forget Action Girl and SiP. One of the low points of my comic-related life was going into a comic book shop in NYC and asking if they had any back issues of Action Girl Comics and receiving a blank, vacant stare. There was another anthology comic called ArtBabe, dunno if it still exists or not, but the one issue I ever got hold of was pretty good. I'll see if I can find it for a more detailed recomendation.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
16:38 / 06.08.02
I wouldn't bother with Hellraiser back issues, but would be all over the trade paperback that came out a few weeks ago, as it pulls out the best stories.

Including a BRILLIANTLY drawn story by Dan Speagle that I never knew existed.

A similar trade of Tapping the Vein stories will be coming out soon as well.

And I wouldn't recommend Starngers in Paradise for the simple fact that while the characters are semi-interesting, the creator can't plot a decent story to save his life, and fills the book with poetry from time to time. Shit poetry.
 
 
Spaniel
16:43 / 06.08.02
Good point, LLB.

NXM's focus on pacifism, community and synthesis, not to mention its sexually charged undercurrent - all very unusual in today's testosterone fuelled top-ten.
 
 
Spaniel
17:08 / 06.08.02
Then of course there is The Invisibles. Ain't nothin' straight in the entire book.
 
 
Cat Chant
15:05 / 10.08.02
Naughty Bits - scrawly b&w artwork about Bitchy Bitch (40something anti-feminist het woman in thankless job) by Roberta Gregory (40something feminist queer woman in thankless job), who has all sorts of "first woman to ... in comics" to her name. I bought it for about three years trying to figure out whether I liked it or not, and I'm still not entirely sure, but now I'm hooked on it anyway, though AFAIK it hasn't come out for a while (it was always on the verge of folding). Influenced by Crumb and "underground" comics about which I know nothing, apparently, and sometimes thinks it's a bit more cutting-edge than it really is, but its worldview is sort of simultaneously restful and provocative. She's written a ton of other stuff which I've never bothered to seek out, but it's probably good.

The Desert Peach (b&w comic about Erwin Rommel's gay brother, by Donna Barr). Sort of like M*A*S*H in North Africa during WWII but with a fabulously flamboyant gay Colonel instead of Hawkeye. Not many women in it, and they tend to be prostitutes.

The Ballad of Halo Jones, which might well fall into the "about a straight, white man and his wank fantasy" category but since his wank fantasy is also mine I'm not bearing a grudge. Alan Moore. Originally in 2000AD. A fantastically detailed & mundane future world with lots of social stuff in it. Dolphins have become 'people'. An entire issue is devoted to the difficulties of organizing a shopping trip on the Ring. Halo Jones joins a band, gets a job on a spaceship, then joins the Army. Sorry to be so disjointed, but I can't think of a good way of conveying how cool this is. Moore said that he wrote it partly because there was a lot of war fiction devoted to the horrors of war, but "future war" scenarios tended just to glamorize it, which might give you some idea of the sort of thing. Nice slashy relationship between Halo and her lovely butch friend Toy.

Thanks for the recs, everyone... and I don't suppose anyone knows where I can get hold of copies of Gay Comix and/or Wimmen's Comix? Comic shop owners tend to look at me blankly, but I know they exist because Roberta Gregory published in them.
 
 
sleazenation
15:59 / 10.08.02
Deva - hate to say it, but you are probably going to have a tough time tracking them down since even the most well stocked comic shops seldom carry much in the way of 60's 70s and eighties undergrounds/ cause comics (or are even aware of them) however when you are next on Ursa prime you might want to check out comics showcase on charring cross rd (pretty much opposite where silver moon used to be)

Depending how far we want to go Posy Simmonds' Gemma Bovery could qualify also as a non-WASP comic but it is very much about the concerns of a early thirties white straight woman but still very interesting nontheless - especially in the way in which it effortlessly splices together comic and prose

or even Sleaze Castle/Petra etc.
don't be put of by the title or the fact that the authors are white hets, this is a tale petra a girl at university whose best friend happens to be an alien princess from another dimension-- the comic is seldom about that though...
 
 
Axel Lambert
17:20 / 10.08.02
Naughty bits is not that far to track down, in my experience, and it's certainly not some "cause comics" (nor is it 60's, 70's or even 80's comics, but rather 90's up to now). I too stayed with it for a couple of years, and then somehow lost interest (but then I also lost interest in Hate, Yummy Fur, Love & Rockets around the same time).

It's real fun.
 
 
sleazenation
18:47 / 10.08.02
i wasn't talking about the stuff that deva was recommending - all those should be pretty easy to get hold of (although i had to go to atlanta to track down some dessert peach stuff) no, i was talking about gay comix and wimmin's comix...
 
 
Shortfatdyke
18:53 / 10.08.02
Why is it that I can't find Hothead Paisan in comic shops?
 
 
bio k9
19:24 / 10.08.02
Take a look at the people running the shops.
 
  

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