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INFO-PLEA: Big, big guns for big, big boys

 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
11:26 / 29.07.02
I need to kit out my cool characters with guns. Anyone know any good websites that I can use for info so I don't end up looking like a giant steaming arse? The stories set more-or-less now, the crims are probably going to be using the old Lock, Stock and 2 Smoking Barrels, but the secret police types will need a variety of stuff. Any ideas? I've tried a few army sites with little success, so I'm turning this one over to the overmind.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
11:50 / 29.07.02
gasp. it's about time i came out as having a huge gun fetish - purely for your benefit, of course, i googled 'rifles' and came up with loads of stuff - try www.knightrifles.com for a start, but they're more shotgunny. from what i could see, you'll have loads of weird and wonderful (and scary, some of em) sites to choose from.
 
 
Grey Area
12:00 / 29.07.02
More guns than you can shake a fucking big stick at:

http://www.mechtechsys.com/
http://www.armalite.com/
http://www.benelliusa.com/our_products/
http://www.crossfirellc.com/Entry-page.htm
http://www.beretta.com
http://members.aol.com/wsp45/
http://www.glock.com
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/home.html
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/
http://www.savagearms.com/
http://www.sigarms.com
http://www.smith-wesson.com
http://www.springfield-armory.com/
http://www.taurususa.com
http://www.carl-walther.de
http://www.magnumresearch.com/

And I hasten to point out that I don't have a list of all gun manufacturers stored on my HD...finding all this was depressingly easy and quick. I hate guns. No, really. Once you've stared down the wrong end of one you develop a quite rational hatred of them.
 
 
Grey Area
12:05 / 29.07.02
...which is then followed by a very strong urge to kit yourself out with some guns yourself. Thank goodness I don't live in the USA, otherwise I'd clank when I walk and explode when I sit down.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
14:52 / 29.07.02
If you were in the USA you wouldn't need a gun shop, you'd just go to your grandaddies arsenal ((C) Eddie Izzard)
 
 
Stone Mirror
15:03 / 29.07.02
I have a Glock 23C. That's a pretty big gun.

 
 
that
16:08 / 29.07.02
Lada, I think the line might be 'grandfather's arsenal'...

And, seeing as I have not even recovered from upsetting my (very warm - I was trying to help) dog by squirting him with a water pistol earlier, I will now leave this thread to those that know what they're talking about...
 
 
Grey Area
16:40 / 29.07.02
Stone, what on earth do you need a .40 caliber pistol for? Is there a plague of rhinos in yoru neighbourhood or something?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
17:00 / 29.07.02
i only have a .177 air pistol, but it's beautiful and i do love target shooting. got the queen mum right between the eyes recently, too. you're right, grey area - i've not been threatened with a gun, had a bloke run past me on my way home from a club in the early hours carrying a revolver, but he wasn't after me - and i would differently about them if i had. nothing wrong with target shooting, just as long as the target isn't a living thing.
 
 
Grey Area
17:37 / 29.07.02
Yes, well, I enjoyed target shooting with my air pistol too (probably still would enjoy it given the chance). Had a beautifully balanced Webley Tempest. Then one of my so-called friends borrowed it and messed up the sight. Now it's as accurate as a pepper mill, and anyway there's a bit of a problem with owning pistols of any kind in Northern Ireland...

There's a well-defined line between people who own air pistols and people who own "real" pistols...the ability to create grapefruit sized holes in creatures big and small.
 
 
The Monkey
23:31 / 29.07.02
Lada of the Flowers,

I'm not sure exactly what your story or premise is, so I'm just tossing out some information that hopefully isn't too technical, and perhaps something will click and be useful at arming your characters. I'm not too good with brand names, but I do have a bit of forensic and tactical info that might be useful. Given a little more info on your fictional milieu, I could probably reel out some more, and Google a few sites that aren't solely for people already in the technnical know.

Not that I'd contradict the sage wisdom of the Wachoski Brothers or anything, but special forces types, and especially secret police, don't carry gigantic hardware meant for stopping elephants, precisely because they are generally operating in urban areas where there ain't much logistics of a weapon that can pass through five or six walls before slowing up.

The way of the future for urban military units has been with compact, low-recoil semiautomatic rifles, in essence improving upon the concept of the Israeli Uzi. They aren't very sexy to look at...sort of just matte black boxes with some ergonomic contouring, and their loads are rarely larger than a .303. The need for greater or lesser stopping power and penetration is now handled by the multiplicity of ammunition types. Crowd control is still implemented with vehicle-mounted .50 caliber machine guns...the tendency of an HV Mini-gun (orginally designed to do double duty in jungle combat by exfoliating the region and exsansanguinating the opponent) to vaporize swathes of people and the buildings/cars/trees behind them makes it a little unfeasible as a deterrant weapon.

By contrast, consider that the .45 caliber pistol has only become military standard since the US occupation of the Phillipines, being introduced *precisely* to deal with the need for crippling power at close range with a very enthusiatic opponent...in other words, in combat occurring on a building-to-building, room-to-room basis. The Desert Eagle, which is the .50 caliber automatic flashed about so lovingly in action films (particularly the Matrix) is the sort of idiot coda on this premise, designed and sold to the US military for service during our conflict in Iraq...because, of course, of the dire need to amputate a limb or implode a major organ with every shot. Of course, the Desert Eagle also recoils so much that it would sprain your wrist if fired one handed, and you have to aim at someone's toes to hit them in the stomach. Thus *sane* non-fanboy types opt for the lighter sidearms, such as 9mms. The US, I think, still issues .45s to officers, but as full-time military they make it a point to practice with and accomodate the recoil force of the handgun.
 
 
Trijhaos
00:20 / 30.07.02
What kind of information are you wanting? Do you just want some names to throw out? Do you want history? Are you looking at just pistols and small arms, or are you going to be pulling out the big stuff like gatling guns and tripod mounted machine guns? What about experimental weapons? Rail guns? Laser sights? Do you want information about how to modify semi-automatic weapons so they become automatic? Do you want to know stuff about recoil, accuracy, and the like? How prominantly do guns figure into your story? Are you going to have an r&d guy demonstrating a new weapon for your secret police types?

It's really hard to point to any specific sites with just a request for information about guns; a little clarification might help a little bit.
 
 
Hieronymus
01:05 / 30.07.02
Heckler & Koch have some new stuff on the horizon, improvements on the old, et al.

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/military/mp5frameset.html
 
 
Stone Mirror
05:26 / 30.07.02
Grey Area inquires Stone, what on earth do you need a .40 caliber pistol for?

The impending collapse of Civilization As We Know It.

Actually, it's for target shooting: I'm a NRA-certified sharpshooter. I've got a CZ-75 9 milli with a "red dot" sight as well, but Lada wanted to know about the "big, big guns"...

"You look like someone with an interesting story to tell..."
 
 
Mystery Gypt
10:48 / 30.07.02
i hate guns.
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
14:39 / 30.07.02
Oh, come on....they're *much* better than a real penis...
 
 
cusm
16:48 / 30.07.02
I believe the .40 is standard issue for the FBI. It has an excellent balance of handling and stopping power. Having shot them myself, I tend to agree. Though when in doubt, anyone can carry a 9mm. They're more common than dirt, most hold 10 shot clips, they're easy to use, and they'll kill you just fine. A good second side arm for an agent who carries a .40 as his primary weapon, and favorite of random mooks everywhere.

Desert Eagle .50s are very cool, but they're not good for much more than killing armored vehicles. They're what people carry who don't know about guns but who want to look like action movie heroes. "Chow Yun Fat uses one, it must be good."

For rifles, the 306 is a classic "big rifle." It'll take out the bad guy, and keep going through the next building. Though really, a 228 will serve you better in most cases and is a lot easier to handle.

*shakes head*

Why do I know this stuff?
 
 
Stone Mirror
19:07 / 30.07.02
Haus: Oh, come on....they're *much* better than a real penis...

Much louder, anyway. But, why choose?
 
 
The Monkey
19:24 / 30.07.02
In the same two-minute time frame, you can blow *so* many more loads with an automatic than a penis. To say nothing of creating new and exciting orifices....
 
 
w1rebaby
20:28 / 30.07.02
"you can take away my penis when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands"

lada - for extra technoflash, you might also want to consider equipping people with fancy ammunition as well as fancy guns. The classic ones are Glaser rounds and Black Talons, but I think they may have been a bit overused in modern pulp.

There's an FBI article about ammunition here, and you can get some ammunition brands and names here. Lots of gun stuff on the net anyway.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:57 / 31.07.02
You are all lovely people and the mauve-ops teams have been instructed to spare you when they start weeding out the population. All except Haus anyway, he looked at me funny in the pub once.
 
 
invisible_al
17:03 / 31.07.02
Heh, well if you can stand to use a rpg as a reference publication, try Feng Shui, the Hong Kong action film game, it has the best guns page in history. None of that gun fanboy information, it says stuff like 'We think the MP5K is a cool gun because it has a pistol grip so you can fire two at the same time'.

Also you need shotguns, if I'm playing a cop character in a game, I always carry a shotgun, because they make that cool Ku-Chunk sound .
I assume you're going for style so the gun the policeman uses in Heat to take out a doors hinges is a Benelli, same as the one thingy in Resident Evil picks up at the end I think. But the Mossberg Special Purpose and the Spas-12 both look cool but have slightly less cool names.

This place Wolfs-Lair has a wide selection of airsoft replicas, so you can get an idea of what they look like.

Also if you want a high tech look for your men in black try the Steyr AUG (page 4 on battle rifles at wolfs-lair) it has that whole sci-fi thing going for it.

As a reader of Tom Clancy, (don't worry I'm in recovery) he's quite into the whole Glaser Round or Black Talon mystique, but he is a bit passe and techno porn so you might not want to.

What kind of feel are you going for in your thang, over the top hong kong action or tense modern thriller?

Heh just look what this thread has dragged out of the woodwork. But this is nothing to some people I know, scary gun-bunnies they are, especially the one who used to be in an armed response unit, screwed up the psych report on that one I think
 
 
w1rebaby
18:51 / 31.07.02
For guns in fiction, I generally prefer the Gibson-style approach. Wave around a few names, places of origin, immediate description rather than a specification list, then an modernist account of its use. Who can forget Rollo's Dragon? The magnum with barrel-mounted xenon projector, "like voodoo in a night-fight"? The cheap 22 with a moulded plastic dragon on the grip in the New Rose Hotel?

Maybe this is just me.

The "chain-gun" was a bit bizarre, though.
 
 
Grey Area
19:29 / 31.07.02
You forgot "caseless ammo through a floating breech" (makes an amusing Sesame Street-style whooping noise when fired apparently).

And what's bizarre about the chain gun? It's a portable anti-personnel mine...you point, press two buttons and everything in front of you is reduced to rubble/hamburger.
 
 
w1rebaby
10:12 / 01.08.02
Yeah, but it's a bit of an odd thing to make or carry. I think it had two shots, but you'd have to be very certain you weren't going to need that third one. I'd rather have some grenades.

Good for a mafia execution that wouldn't be forgotten, though.
 
 
Pabloboy
10:47 / 01.08.02
I would go for one of these, for _really_ cool characters:

http://www.hoardmag.com/riello/Riello_1.htm

http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/riallo/

Now that's what I call killing in a fashionable style!
 
  
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