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Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Is g.k. chesterton misogynist?

14:14 / 25.07.02

As I asked on the detective thread, having read only ONE (count 'em) GK Chesterton work (and no, it wasn't The Man Who Was Thursday, and I've been told there are threads on that work)--a collection of Father Brown stories--I found the gender politics of his work to be, well, irritatingly traditionalist, with the "good" and "bad" women falling into pretty predictable categories. So irritating, in fact, that I am loathe to give him another go. Am I being unfair?

A broader question: what do you do if you encounter a writer you want to like, but you feel some part of your own identity, philosophical system is ridiculed or attacked by that writer? I'm especially interested in specific examples of conflict between yourself and a writer you like, or want to like, and how you dealt with it, rather than advice, so much.

15:29 / 25.07.02

i don't know chesterton's work, but i recently read an interview with the sf writer m john harrison, a name i was aware of and who's very very well respected in that genre. i found him intelligent and interesting in the interview and was checking out which book to buy. a couple of weeks later, i got into an discussion on an sf noticeboard about slash fiction. a couple of the posters seemed to have a definate problem with homosexuality and one especially had a really crummy attitude. turned out to be m john harrison! i was still interested in reading his stuff, especially a short story collection, 'travel arrangements', since i thought he was more pompous than anything else - no reason to boycott a writer - but the next day he came out with stuff that made it clear he was a homophobe ('dogs fucking in the street is just that, nothing more') and no way is he going to get any of my money.

that's how i dealt with it. i might read something if i can find it second hand, but it's the same as any other part of life - if a person/company steps over the line/has morals you can't abide, vote with your wallet.

16:35 / 25.07.02

I'd imagine Chesterton's attitude to women probably has more to do with Victorian/Edwardian society than any deliberate, personal prejudice on his part. But then, I've only read two of his novels, neither of which had any female characters worth speaking of in them..

12:22 / 26.07.02

it doesn't matter if you like reading it. you weren't going to adopt his outlook as your own or anything anyway were you?

14:06 / 26.07.02

I read a letter Chesterton wrote to a young woman considering marriage, and nothing stood out as misogynist about that at all.

I don't remember much of it, to tell the truth, though.

No star here laces

14:08 / 26.07.02

Chesterton died quite a long time ago, so no real need to worry about giving him money...

12:02 / 27.07.02

right, well I guess I'm not going to have to worry about giving Chesterton money, I just have to decide if he's worth more of my time. I'm guessing he is, but I'm reading Dorothy Sayers right now . . .

13:16 / 27.07.02

Chesterton is well worth a lot of anyone's time. He's not always right, but he's always worth reading. Any of his faults he more than makes up for by being a hilarious man with a huge heart, a marvellous turn of phrase, a unique and miraculous way of looking at the world, an obsession with paradox, and frequent displays of deep wisdom.

The Return Of Rothkoid

07:09 / 28.07.02

The problem you're having with Chesterton sounds like the problem I had with Sax Rohmer's Fu Manchu novels. They're inherently racist. I still enjoyed the set-pieces in the books (I've only read one of the five volumes) but kept feeling a bit weird reading it on the tube. I think I must've told myself that old saw about "different times, different attitudes" but it still made me distinctly uneasy. With frequent mentions to the "evil genius of the yellow race", I did find that the demonisation sat ill with me.

Perhaps that's why the rest remain unread up to now? Hmm.

Jack The Bodiless

10:05 / 28.07.02

re: the Chesterton thing... Women aren't mentioned a hell of a lot in the stuff of his I've read.But, to be perfectly honest, neither are men. He mentions people a great deal, though. Very big on people. I'm not entirely sure which 'Father Brown' stories possess the charming qualities you mention... gimme a few titles and I'll reread them with that in mind.

As for the broader question - my view is that it's possible to view a work of art or entertainment (and I'm not getting into what separates the two, or if anything actually does separate the two, right now) as entirely separate from the personal politics of the creator, unless said personal politics make it impossible to appreciate said work (a la the GKC stories you mentioned). However, I have found myself actually liking (for example) Sean Connery's films a lot less since I found out what a bastard and a sexist he can be in real life. That wasn't a decision, though, but a reaction.

And I agree with not subsidising the income of someone with whom you vehemently disagree, but not as a boycott... simply because I like to be spiteful and unkind on occasion.

11:10 / 14.08.02

alas - I'll get back to you on this one. Nudge me if I don't.

There was a thread, back in the old days, called "The pleasure of the ideologically unsound text" (can't find it here to link to) which addressed some of these issues. I didn't feel we got very far on that occasion, though Cavatina did come through with some good stuff from Barthes on the topic... are you still around, Cav?