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Students' Right to Ignorance Upheld

 
 
Jack Fear
15:41 / 23.07.02
Breaking news: this case has just been decided in favor of the students.

Three students and a conservative Christian organization have filed a lawsuit against the University of North Carolina, saying a requirement that freshmen read a book about Islam is unconstitutional.

The university is infringing on students' First Amendment right to religious freedom by requiring them to read "Approaching the Qur'n: The Early Revelations," says the suit, filed Monday in federal court in Greensboro. All incoming freshmen this year have been told to read the text...

School officials have said the subject is timely and informational, and that the reading requirement is not intended to promote Islam.


Revealing quote from the head of the conservative Christian group spearheading this: "Our long-term goal is to make sure the precedent is affirmed that you cannot force people to take a class about a religious text at a state university."

Conservative Christians advocating the separation of Church and State? Now I've seen everything...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:10 / 23.07.02
Is it just me that's having problems with the link? Because this sounds fascinating, but I've tried twice, and once my pc crashed. The second time I got a page not found error thingy.
If it isn't, I guess it just means my pc's not very well.
 
 
MJ-12
16:12 / 23.07.02
try here until the above gets moderated
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:22 / 23.07.02
Cheers MJ- I would have attempted moderating it myself, but a) have proved in the past that my html sucks, and b) didn't know where it was. Thank you.

Jack- that quote you used ("you cannot force people" etc.) is quite possibly the best use of irony I've seen in a long time. Now how'd the Onion managed to get a CNN.COM banner at the top this time?

I don't really know what to say. That's either the funniest, saddest, or most fucked-up thing I've heard in a long time. Or possibly all of the above.
 
 
gridley
16:37 / 23.07.02
Well, I've got to say, if it was a state school forcing freshmen to read a book called "Approaching Christianity," we'd all be up at arms about them shoving Christianity down kids' throats. Don't you think?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:05 / 23.07.02
Hadn't thought of it that way, gridley- we had loads of Christianity chucked at us at school (that's UK). Admittedly I had more than most (my dad was a vicar) but that's by the by.

BUT we had various other religions taught to us as well. (Only, now I come to think of it, it was all in a very patronising "this is what these weird fuckers believe in" kind of way. That's Somerset in the 70s/80s for ya!)

So I guess I'm agreeing with you... but the irony/Onion thing still stands.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:06 / 23.07.02
Oh. Something else just occurred to me.
This is a university. Nobody's compelled to go there. They're adults, not kids.
 
 
w1rebaby
19:53 / 23.07.02
I don't know. If it's a book about Islam, rather than some sort of proselytising, I think it has its place on a reading list. I'd be quite happy to read books about Christianity; in fact, I have done. That's decent education.

I wonder whether there were any primers on Christianity on the list?

Smacks of Islamophobia/religious isolationism to me.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:28 / 24.07.02
Precisely.
 
 
higuita
12:14 / 24.07.02
Partly, but doesn't part of the constitution also bar enforcement of wholesale religious teaching/worship in a US state school?
 
 
Jack Fear
15:00 / 24.07.02
Of course, but there's a line between proselytizing and information—between "religious teaching" and teaching about religion, without advocacy. I would argue that the latter is necessary as a sub-field of cultural studies—necessary because it provides a context for understanding the world around you.

Many Americans agree with me: in the wake of the September 11th attacks, books about Islam and about the Taliban were flying off the shelves.

But the wilful, contented ignorance of many American college students
amazes me—and this is from someone who worked at a college for nearly ten years. In my time there, I took a religious studies course on a lark: one of the course requirements was that all students attend a religious service from a tradition not their own, and for most of the students (who were overwhelmingly Catholic, this being a Catholic college) this was an absolute revelation—and one by which not a few of them felt threatened. One student said in to me in astonishment, (and this is an exact quote) "You mean Jews go to Mass on Saturday?!?"
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:57 / 24.07.02
Okay, probably veering slightly off-topic but some of the Fundie Christian groups in America fund Jewish organisations shipping the faithful to new lives in Israel on the grounds it'll speed up the return of Christ, Armageddon and all that shit...
This;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0922915784/qid%3D1027529729/026-9417129-2947658

is worth a look at but badly organised.
 
 
kid coagulant
17:12 / 24.07.02
Veering a little further, but it's called 'dispensationalism'. Article about it in salon:

http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2002/05/24/dispensational/index.html

'Put baldly, millions of evangelical Christians see forewarnings of Armageddon in the crisis in the Middle East. Followers of dispensationalism, a major strain within American evangelical Christianity, they believe that the return of Jews to Israel and the restoration of Jewish sovereignty over the Temple Mount is a precondition for the rapture, the apocalypse and the return of Christ.'
 
 
alas
18:58 / 24.07.02
Arrgh. These folks need to read Milton's Areopagitica:

Dionysius Alexandrinus was about the year 240, a person of great name in the Church for piety and learning, who
had wont to avail himself much against hereticks by being conversant in their Books; untill a certain Presbyter laid it scrupulously to his conscience, how he durst venture himselfe
among those defiling volumes. The worthy man loath to give offence fell into a new debate with himselfe what was to be thought; when suddenly a vision sent from God, it is his own
Epistle that so averrs it, confirm'd him in these words: Read any books what ever come to thy hands, for thou art sufficient both to judge aright, and to examine each matter. To this
revelation he assented the sooner, as he confesses, because it was answerable to that of the Apostle to the Thessalonians, Prove all things, hold fast that which is good. And he
might have added another remarkable saying of the same Author; To the pure, all things are pure, not only meats and drinks, but all kinde of knowledge whether of good or evill;
the knowledge cannot defile, nor consequently the books . . .
 
 
Baz Auckland
20:50 / 24.07.02
...but why are they in such a hurry to bring about the armageddon? Wouldn't that be a no-no, to try and speed up the end of humanity? Shouldn't this just happen naturally as part of The Plan?
 
 
alas
11:56 / 27.07.02
ah, but maybe it's part of the Plan for you to speed it up. . . to demonstrate that you are truly eager for God's Kingdom, really an US, not one of "Them."
 
 
Thjatsi
18:38 / 27.07.02
Partly, but doesn't part of the constitution also bar enforcement of wholesale religious teaching/worship in a US state school?

While this is the case for high school and below, the separation of church and state starts to get a bit hairy by the time you get to college. The majority of state supported universities have classes on some religions but not others. While I do live in the United States, I have absolutely no idea what the correct answer to this question is from the standpoint of constitutional law.
 
  
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