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BBC Liberates Kabul

07:01 / 13.11.01

I was listening to the Today programme this morning and heard a report from John Simpson in which he claimed to be 'among the first group of people to liberate Kabul'... oh, the hubris...

But anyway, does anyone else think that the apparent collapse of the Taliban may well be more of a strategic retreat? Their forces could quite easily hold out in the mountains (a-la Northern Alliance) and prevent any real settlement in the country, even in the event that some sort of compromise can be engineered with the Northern Alliance.

I hear that rumours abound that Herat and Kandahar have also been abandoned.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:06 / 13.11.01

Not sure of the strategic implications, but Simpson's "I'm down with the Northern Alliance, me" stance has become increasingly ridiculous - did anyone else see him interviewed last night, when he talked about how the sudden Alliance advances didn't surprise him, cos he'd seen the Taliban fight and they were rubbish? Dear me... I bet he rode in on the top of a rusty old tank, waving a big flag...

08:06 / 13.11.01

i have visions of nicholas witchell et al, giving the taliban what for.....

i don't what to believe. i certainly don't think the taliban would give up so easily. so yeah, strategic retreat is more likely in my book.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:07 / 13.11.01

If so, they should probably have chosen different rhetoric at the beginning of the conflict.

And Afghanistan is comparatively small. It's not like Russia where you can retreat and retreat - you hole up and fight a guerilla war, or you run out of country.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:10 / 13.11.01

Actually, this raises the larger question - foreign correspondents: courageous heroes risking their lives to bring us the Truth, or glory-seeking, chest-beating, self-mythologising cretins?

(And of course, the answer is: somewhere in the middle...)

[ 13-11-2001: Message edited by: Flyboy ]

08:10 / 13.11.01

That said, the mountains divide the country very effectively during winter- and if this is a retreat rather than a rout, they could be planning to try and buy themselves a winter's worth of time to regroup in the south, which is where the majority of Pashtuns live.

08:15 / 13.11.01

quote:Originally posted by Nick:
And Afghanistan is comparatively small. It's not like Russia where you can retreat and retreat - you hole up and fight a guerilla war, or you run out of country.

Guerrilla war is pretty much what I had in mind - unless they can hook up with some of their supporters in Pakistan, where elements are decidedly unhappy with the idea of the Northern Alliance being in power in Kabul.

[ 13-11-2001: Message edited by: Kit-Cat Club ]

No star here laces

08:37 / 13.11.01

Much more likely is that all their conscripts have fled in droves, upon realising that the likelihood of retribution is very slim.

What will remain will be all the hardcore mojahedin types who won them power in the first place.

And they probably will fuck off back to the hills and spend the next 20 years picking off aid workers and UN representatives with their hoarded ammunition.

Ah, optimism.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:37 / 13.11.01

Amazingly, I find that a rather desirable outcome, given the alternatives.

16:15 / 13.11.01

Originally posted by Flyboy:

Actually, this raises the larger question - foreign correspondents: courageous heroes risking their lives to bring us the Truth, or glory-seeking, chest-beating, self-mythologising cretins?

Yeah, a lot of them are - and you can forget about 'somewhere in the middle' and all.

But I have to say I trust John Simpson to tell me the truth. It is always a good indicator that a reporter is
(a) respected

but also

(b) condemned by both sides in a conflict for their reporting.

Does anyone remember Kosovo, where Tony Blair effectively used Parliamentary privilige from libel to say that John Simpson was a mouthpiece for Milosevic?

(It happened, basically, because Simpson had revealed a few truths about the war which Tone didn't like)

Simpson is one of those people who I do trust to tell it like it is.

And I'm glad that journalists are finally getting involved in this war. There has been too much misinformation from both sides, without independent verification from the ground.

PS: Was the Today interview the one where he stopped, disgusted, because he had seen the dead body of a Taleban fighter in front of him? Because it didn't sound too chest-beating to me...

[Rant Over]

16:40 / 13.11.01

I did lie in bed watching the 1 o'clock news and it really did strike me that John Simspon was liberating the city. The people cheering, he raised his arms in triumph, onward he marched. Jubilation!
And then pictures of dead perhaps executed men sprawled in the gutter. A juxtaposition that's hard to wrap your head around.

10:39 / 14.11.01

do you think simpson will also be put on trail for warcrimes and implicated in the executions of taliban sympathisers?

11:03 / 14.11.01

i heard about executions of taliban fighters. i thought - well why not get revenge on the fuckers. then i saw a taliban bloke with blood running down the side of his head and i thought, no i couldn't condone it. even though they've done terrible things.

15:42 / 14.11.01

Can't work out how to get the picture codes to work, but this made me laugh.

(It's Steve Bell on John Simpson 'liberating' Kabul)

Jack The Bodiless

16:23 / 14.11.01

Yes. Let's go for killing anyone and everyone that fights for a nasty power until we see the pictures. Presumably you'd still feel good about torture and butchery being euphemised retitled 'reprisals' if you'd steered clear of a telly or a paper?

Anyone else see the article in the Mirror (I'm not proud of it... I was bored at work) by the ex-Soviet special forces colonel about their ten years trying to control Afghanistan, and how they left beaten and humiliated after trying to flush the resistance out of the mountains? They walked right into Kabul in a matter of hours.

This has all gone far too fast... Now that the Northern Alliance have Kabul, is there any effective way of getting the fuckers out? Hatred of the Taliban's the only thing holding them together. And has anyone else noticed (probably, but I'm a little behind in this forum) how the Big Objective shifted from the capture or killing of Bin Laden and the destruction of Al Quaida to the removal of the Taliban? Everyone seems to be jumping up and down like the former means the latter...

20:21 / 15.11.01

From mexican newspaper La Jornada (in spanish)

(Heading) Find the differences between the two images
(left) Former US ally in Afghanistan
(right)Current US ally in Afghanistan
(bottom, upside down) Answer: If you find any difference, please let us know...

"Sir, the Northern Alliance is in control of Afghanistan"
"Perfect. Begin plans for desestabilization..."

[ 19-11-2001: Message edited by: Sam Lowry ]