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5 Most Over-rated comics

 
  

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Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
02:36 / 22.07.02
Not comics we hate, but comics that get a lot of praise and make you think, "Am I on crack for not loving this or are they on crack FOR loving this?"

My 5:

Bone: Yeah, a breath of fresh air when it started, but the first few issues moved at a wonderful pace, and now each issue has slowed to such a crawl that I don't think anything has happened since he came back from his adventures in movie-land.

Johnny the Homicidal Maniac: It might be good, but the layout and lettering are utterly unreadable, so I can't tell.

Black Panther: For all the praise it gets, the issues I have tried have horrible art I wouldn't wish on an old Image book and stories so confusing that I think the people who say it is good just don't want to admit they are lost.

The Original Justice League: This is why Marvel beat DC in sales. Awkwardly bland art, gimmick stories and interchangable heroes that had the personality of toothpaste. I have bought the Archives, but just can't force myself through them.

Rising Stars: I read Watchmen. I liked it a lot. I don't need someone's longer, less skilled, poorly drawn fan-fiction version of it.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
09:43 / 22.07.02
'Strangers in Paradise'. The concept of quality control in just alien to this guy, one issue will be brilliant, the next awful. And the main characters have been doing the same things for three or four years now.
 
 
Ellis says:
10:01 / 22.07.02
The Authority? Or anything by Mr. Ellis or Mr. Millar by that matter.

Ellis: Angry main character who hates people and swears a lot, with no motivation.

Millar: Sadism. Yawn.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:34 / 22.07.02
sandman
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
11:53 / 22.07.02
Stranger in Paradice has always astounded me. He crams tons of poetry and "song lyrics" into his stories, which always strikes me as an amateur move. But, the reason I dont' read it is that in the first story arc, he had a big story about one of the characters taking money from a gangster and that gangster trying to hhunt them down...only to show in the last part of the story that the gangster had embezzled the money and KNEW the character had nothing to do with it.

In other words, the entire plot of the story was so full of holes, he had no idea how to get out of it.

I haven't picked up an issue since.
 
 
some guy
13:55 / 22.07.02
Transmet: The early issues had so much promise, but in the end it turned out to not actually be about anything. Full of sound and fury, but...

Sandman: I'm rereading the compilations right now and an awful lot of it is pandering nonsense that hasn't aged well. On the other hand, some of it is quite good.

Amazing Spider-Man: Read the Best of Spider-Man hardcover on an airplane last week and the much-hyped Straczynski stuff is bad. Really bad. "This is what I learned in my semester of creative writing" bad.

100 Bullets: The acclaim this book gets is beyond me. It's little more than a macho T&A book, notable only for its amazing art. Azzarrello, as of the fourth trade paperback, has yet to produce a non-stereotypical character, a positive female character, a line of realistic slang or an interesting slant to yet another conspiracy. If it came out through Avatar with poor art everyone would be slagging it off.

Channel Zero: While I want to give Brian Wood points for showing how to make a comic without being able to write or draw, I'm too busy being astonished that critics are praising this book instead of pointing out that it doesn't actually have a story or accomplished visual storytelling. I'm sure this will get me lynched here, but while Channel Zero has pretty (if derivative) pictures and an interesting (if derivative) central premise, it has no story, characterization or sense of storytelling. More a series bible than a series...
 
 
Ellis says:
14:02 / 22.07.02
(Channel Zero also has a terrible "angry" introduction by Warren Ellis.

I'm about to start reading it actually.)
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:09 / 22.07.02
channel zero is pretty poor, agreed.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:09 / 22.07.02
You know, I read the first couple issues of 100 Bullets and just didn't get it. Maybe its because I am a crime novel buff, but there wasn't anything interesting there, and the art went out of its way to be hard to read.

Sandman not aging well? I can understand that, what with so many people stealing Neil's style and driving it into the ground. I remember when a fan I know when back and read Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and said they would have liked it a lot more if they hadn't read all those shitty late 80's books that tried to make every superhero an elemental...
 
 
Chuckling Duck
15:22 / 22.07.02
Preacher. Ennis clones his testosterone-poisoned main character off into another title to prove yet again that the only values that matter are standing by your mates and liking a good drunken screw. He mixes in a few interchangeable sexy women with guns and stereotypical hillbilly bad guys--hillbillies, the minority it’s OK to hate. Add to this a creator who can design a universe but can’t find his ass with both hands without a map, and you’ve got a mystery. Why do people above the age of thirteen like this comic?
 
 
troy
16:49 / 22.07.02
I agree that the art in Black Panther is its achilles heel. The writing is actually quite clever (clever enough for me to read it for free when a friend loans it to me, anyway).

Let's not forget that Ellis' angry protagonists almost always smoke too. Oooh, they're such rebels. Give me a fucking break.

I don't think JMS' Spider-Man is so terrible, really (then again, I'm not compelled to buy, either). Overrated, I suppose, but definitely competent.

And as for Sandman, it still kicks ass on most of Gaiman's prose work. He's stated that "American Gods" was the first prose work where he was able to reach Sandman's level (haven't actually read "American Gods" yet, but I did try to trudge through "Neverwhere" - competent for what it was, but no Sandman).

And I like Millar too. Always have. So there. (And I'm not even into sadism. Go figger).
 
 
some guy
17:02 / 22.07.02
I just find Millar ... unremarkable.
 
 
Abigail Blue
17:24 / 22.07.02
Crimson. Pretty, but adolescent and stupid. And it drives me CRAZY when writers create francophone characters who don't speak correct French! Aaaagh!

JTHM is definitely a bit overrated, but I'm more willing to forgive Jhonen Vazquez his "don't judge me by the way I look, you sheep, even though I have a steel girder through my forehead and I'm wearing a flashing sign that says 'Pay Attention to Me! '" because he was an adolescent when he wrote it. I Feel Sick, however, is pure unadulterated genius.

Transmet emphatically seconded. If Spider screams any more triteness about only caring about the TRUTH!, I'm going to burn all of my back issues and mail the ashes to Ellis. Plus, on the whole smoking thing, whassup with the "anti-cancer trait"? Seems like he's trying to avoid criticism for glorifying smoking, but in the dumbest possible way...
 
 
Axel Lambert
19:36 / 22.07.02
Ennis' Hellblazer
Milligan's Shade
Frank Miller's Daredevil (except for Born again)
Alan Moore's V for vendetta
 
 
w1rebaby
19:49 / 22.07.02
The Invisibles. Bad art, rambling pseudo-deep narrative namechecking superficial aspects of trendy philosophy. As overrated as Robert Anton Wilson.
 
 
Spaniel
20:36 / 22.07.02
Fridgemagnet, I see you are a fighting man.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
20:40 / 22.07.02
I will second (or third? fourth?) Strangers In Paradise and Amazing Spider-Man. SIP I gave up years ago, but I don't know why I'm still buying Amazing.

Kochalka's stuff. Read Quit Your Job the other day, said "Eh." Maybe I've read the wrong things of his? Maybe I'm missing something? I'm willing to concede to these possibilities. I don't think his stuff is bad, really. I kind of like his artwork, but his stories seem seriously lacking. I just don't see why people think so highly of his work.

That's all I can think of right at the moment. I can think of a lot more that is seriously underrated...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:45 / 22.07.02
I'm sorry, but some of the "criticisms" in this thread are not only lazy, but ridiculous and demonstrably untrue.

For instance, Laurence, it's patently not the case that Transmet, which I'm hardly a huge fan of, is "not actually... about anything". You might not think that what it's about is very interesting or important, or that the comic's concerns/subject matter is handled at all well, but it is clearly about something. Equally, whatever you feel about the merits and flaws of Channel Zero, it's fairly easy to demonstrate that "it has no story" is a nonsensical remark. It has a story, Laurence. Maybe you don't like it - maybe you just missed it - but it has a story. Would you like me to summarise it?

You might want to bear in mind that the positive criticism extended towards these two and many other titles listed above has not all been limited to "duuuuude, it rocks!", and that therefore any refutation of that acclaim that expects to be taken seriously will probablyu have to rise above the level of "duuuude, it sucks!"
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
22:58 / 22.07.02
Kochalka's stuff is something that grew on me, and I don't think he is a genius, but I like that he treats comics like a diary, drawing a page a day about his life. His stories are a bit on the bland side, but his diaries are very fun once you get past the fact that he doesn't believe in craft.

Millar has never equalled the work he did on Superman Adventures. So sez I.

And while Transmet is about something...does that something matter? Hunter S Thompson in the future against a fascist President that everyone loves? High coincept, but he's doing nothing with it now...after 3 great years of all out invention and creativity, Ellis is tossing out 5 page stories as 22 page comics, and for all of hsi talk that it's Manga-style, it strikes me more as endless padding to get a longer string of paychecks.
 
 
the Fool
00:15 / 23.07.02
I'll second Rising Stars as a well and truly overrated comic, it started really well and has just pettered out. Decline in story, decline in art. Its just hobbling to the finish line to die.
 
 
some guy
00:16 / 23.07.02
I'm sorry, but some of the "criticisms" in this thread are not only lazy, but ridiculous and demonstrably untrue.

It's a light thread about opinion, not an academic discourse.

For instance, Laurence, it's patently not the case that Transmet, which I'm hardly a huge fan of, is "not actually... about anything". You might not think that what it's about is very interesting or important, or that the comic's concerns/subject matter is handled at all well, but it is clearly about something.

What, then? And trace that theme, Flyboy, throughout all five years. I'd wager you can't, because it's been aimless shit for at least three of them. It's not "about" journalism, it's not "about" truth, it's not "about" politics or intrigue. It can't decide what it wants to be.

Equally, whatever you feel about the merits and flaws of Channel Zero, it's fairly easy to demonstrate that "it has no story" is a nonsensical remark.

Girl walks around pontificating before getting caught. That's not a story, it's a lazy excuse for throwing out some sophomoric politics and stringing together interesting images.

And you know, you can get right off that high horse when you return to this thread. If you disagree with the opinions presented here, why not actually take the time to explain why you feel the way you do instead of wasting everyone's time with hypocritical posts that contain no real explanations of your own?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:25 / 23.07.02
It's a light thread about opinion, not an academic discourse.

This says it all to me - it explains exactly why now is a good time to kill Barbelith. Ideally, ALL of the discussions in the spectacle forum should be intelligent, thoughtful, and well-written. The spectacle forums are no longer taken seriously, and so we have to deal with "it's a light thread" bullshit. You're only saying that cos you and other people are being lazy. If you're not going to discuss these things seriously, if you're not going to do your own opinions credit by backing them up, why bother at all? What's the point of posting here as opposed to Comicon or whatever? If you're going to go into music, film, comics threads with an "it sux! it rocks!" level of articulation, I think that yr really abusing the quality standards that this community once had.

I'm not exactly singling out Laurence here, either - this has been a big trend here for the past few months. What's the point of endlessly posting to "what's the worst? what's the best?" threads? It's shallow, it's lazy. Whatever happened to "academic discourse", huh?
 
 
some guy
13:50 / 23.07.02
Ideally, ALL of the discussions in the spectacle forum should be intelligent, thoughtful, and well-written.

And in this thread they were, until Flyboy showed up, took a few potshots (without engaging in any intellectual conversation of his own) and vanished. People are listing books they think are overrated and giving examples of why they believe this to be the case. I expect that a few books would have become the focus of the thread eventually, with shared dissection of them.

The spectacle forums are no longer taken seriously, and so we have to deal with "it's a light thread" bullshit. You're only saying that cos you and other people are being lazy. If you're not going to discuss these things seriously, if you're not going to do your own opinions credit by backing them up, why bother at all?

Before you get any further, go back and read the thread. I think you'll find people are backing up their opinions...

Whatever happened to "academic discourse", huh?

Sometimes, and quite fairly, people get tired of disappearing up their own backsides and are happy taking a breather talking about what they like and don't. It's absolutely ridiculous for you and Flyboy to hop into a thread in which you were not participating solely to criticize it. That sort of behavior, if anything, is reason enough to fold up Barbelith. Do you have nothing better to do with your time than to police threads?

And in your case, Flux, I'd shut up about wanting lofty academic discourses in every thread lest somebody read your contributions to Crisis in Ultimate Universes. You can start practising what you preach here as well - I don't see you boosting this conversation with considered opinions on which books are overrated...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:59 / 23.07.02
Yeah, folks are *sort of* backing up their opinions, but in a very shallow sort of way, with the exception of Solitaire Rose.

Laurence - think about what I wrote. Didn't I make it pretty clear that I think that best of/worst of/underrated/overrated/rock, rot, and rule threads are wastes of time? That I'm pretty bored with the Ronald Thomas Clontle-ization of Barbelith's Spectacle forums? Why should I jump in and tell you about what comics I don't like/don't read? Why should there be an entire thread about it?
 
 
Ellis says:
14:13 / 23.07.02
Why shouldn't there?

If we are to talk about what we like, why can't we talk about what we don't like?

And incidentally, this thread is for books that we think are overrated and why they are overrated, not for books we think are bad.

Like it says in the abstract.

Sorry if that sounds snarky.
 
 
some guy
14:36 / 23.07.02
Didn't I make it pretty clear that I think that best of/worst of/underrated/overrated/rock, rot, and rule threads are wastes of time?

So why are you here? And why are you wasting our time? This forum isn't designed to please you, Flux. It's here for people to talk about whatever they damn well want to talk about. If you don't like a thread, ignore it. It's very simple.

It also smacks of arrogance and hypocrisy to post in a thread merely to criticize it, and to lay down standards for said thread without bothering to make a post that conforms to them...
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
15:19 / 23.07.02
Ah, when the autistic collide...

Flux, it is possible for threads about which titles are overrated/good/bad to serve a useful purpose, in terms of deflating hype, providing a buying guide for prospective purchasers (how many have been saved from wading through the sixth-form poetry of Death: the High Cost of Living by a simple monition from a friend?) and offering a forum in which ancient and modern examples of the art can be compared. If the standard of discussion is low, then this must to some degree be blamed on the participants, not the subject matter. To complain that people are using the Spectacle in a way that allows them to be intellectually lazy, is a matter either for the Policy or its own thread, or indeed for the MODERATORS to improve by trying to pull up the level of debate, introduce new ideas, start intelligent threads. That is likely to achieve far more than going Comic Book Guy on the discutants.

[flamebait]Besides, you can't expect intelligent conversation from comic book readers, anyway.[/flamebait]
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:53 / 23.07.02
Haus is correct, of course.

...and I apologize for hijacking this thread when my venting is probably more suited for the Policy.
 
 
some guy
16:00 / 23.07.02
No problem. I apologize if I got overheated...
 
 
troy
17:39 / 23.07.02
And now we return to our regularly scheduled program...
 
 
gentleman loser
23:06 / 23.07.02
fridgemagnet:

The Invisibles. Bad art, rambling pseudo-deep narrative namechecking superficial aspects of trendy philosophy. As overrated as Robert Anton Wilson.

I'd be the first to admit that I know little to nothing about comics, but I've always been curious of the fact that "The Invisibles" seems to be totally above criticism on every comic board I've ever read.

This makes me immediately suspicious.

(That and the fact that comic fanboys seem to set the standard for wankerism. Worst yet, they seem to get away with it.)
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
23:42 / 23.07.02
From a purely utilitarian standpoint, the sheer amount of good shit that Morisson exposed me to through The Invisibles puts it beyond my ability to criticize it. It's by no means perfect, and definitely not entirely successful as a narrative or as an example of comics art, but its imperfections are more than propped up by Morrison's ideological generosity. Overrated in terms of its being the second coming, sure, but still right at the top of my list.
 
 
A
03:11 / 24.07.02
Actually, i've noticed that around these parts it's become more and more common for folks to criticise the Invisibles. I think some of this is simply folks not wanting to appear to be Morrison fanboy/girls, but, still, if the Invisibles isn't sacred here, of all places (which it shouldn't be, of course), then i'd imagine it wouldn't be elsewhere, either.

Making fun of Transmetropolitan, and Warren Ellis in general, however, seems to be Barbelith's Official National Sport. I have to say that, while I've read very little of Ellis' other work, I've read the first 5 Transmetropolitan trades and have yet to notice any of the drop in quality that so many folks here keep talking about. Of course, a lot of those folks are probably reading the single issues, which would probably make something of a difference.

As for overrated comics, I read The Dark Knight Returns for the first time a few months back, and was quite disappointed. Maybe I'd read too much stuff that draws from the ideas in it, but it just didn't seem like anything special to me. I've always thought that playing up the fascist/sadist angle of Batman was kind of silly, and, in my opinion, really missing the point of the character. It wasn't a bad comic, by any stretch of the imagination, just one i find to be a bit unremarkable compared to other versions of the character I've read.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
03:25 / 24.07.02
Hmm...playing the good moderator and the fact that I like this thread...

I remember when Shade came out. I wanted so much to like it, but was utterly bored by the whole thing. The big discussion among older fans was that it was "weird for the sake of being weird." I don't feel that was the case (since they also said it about Animal Man which was a VERY normal and tame series compared to other stuff Grant did) but I never much cared for it.

And Invisibles did not work as a monthly book. Halfway through the second series I quit buying the monthlys to get the trade paperbacks, in which format it works much better.

Dark Knight Returns? Product of its time, and stolen from so many times I can't imagine anyone reading it fresh would think it's anything but a retread of all the shit 90's work in DC comics. But trust me, at the time, it turned everything on its ear...that, Watchmen and Maus saved us from Secret Wars VII being what this forum is based on.
 
 
01
05:31 / 24.07.02
Hellblazer
Green Arrow
 
  

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