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US military to have police role in US?

20:27 / 21.07.02

U.S. Mulls Military's Domestic Role

WASHINGTON (AP) - Homeland security chief Tom Ridge says the threat of terrorism may force government planners to consider using the military for domestic law enforcement, now largely prohibited by federal law.
President Bush has called on Congress to thoroughly review the law that bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. The Coast Guard and National Guard troops under the control of state governors are excluded from the Reconstruction-era law, known as the "Posse Comitatus Act."

Ridge said Sunday that it "goes against our instincts as a country to empower the military with the ability to arrest," and called the prospect "very unlikely."

But he said the government is wise to examine the law.

"We need to be talking about military assets, in anticipation of a crisis event," Ridge said on "Fox News Sunday." "And clearly, if you're talking about using the military, then you should have a discussion about posse comitatus."...

...House Majority Leader Dick Armey said on NBC's "Meet the Press" there was a strong possibility Congress will resolve its differences and send Bush a bill enacting the sweeping government reorganization by Sept. 11.

Some lawmakers have expressed concern about rushing decisions on far-reaching changes in the bureaucracy, but Armey said: "It's time to move forward with this. The president's got a good plan."...

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whoa

Read the full story to see that, while some people are cautious, there seems to be political support for this, judging by the interviews.

Opinions as to how likely this is to happen? Sad shaking of heads and sighing?

00:49 / 22.07.02

The hits just keep rolling, don't they?

Harold Washington died for you

03:53 / 22.07.02

Anyone seen that terrorist movie with Denzel Washington and Bruce Willis? The one where martial law is enacted over New York and all the Arab looking men are arrested and put in detention camps by the Army?

I sure as fuck hope it does not happen, carpet bombing is fine for Afghanistan but I dont want it on my street.

You hear some lawmakers (especially the House Republicans) going on about how they want the new Security department enacted by 9/11, like it is some magical deadline that, if met, will free the victims from Purgatory. That would be nice, but I think they are just scrounging all the 'War on Terror' cred they can right before a very important election. Fuckers.

05:23 / 22.07.02

Yeah...the timing is some ritual bullshit...I'd be much happier if those in power really thought about things beyond their own noses and just gave the states a concept that works. Take as long as you need.

It seems that the subject of a more active military in the nation is mostly talk. There would obviously be a large majority who would speak out about something like this if in in fact did happen. Way beyond the writing a letter to your congressman slant.

Essentially, the coast guard and police forces do seem like enough to handle most domestic issues...though I'm sure that the military would be used without thought if there was a large threat that needed to be taken care of inland regardless of what a few pieces of paper say anyway. The part that's scary is the aftermath of such an event. Seems that the imagination takes over quite well from there...

13:51 / 22.07.02

carpet bombing is fine for Afghanistan but I dont want it on my street

!

Harold Washington died for you

16:39 / 22.07.02

Er yeah sorry. That looks kinda crass and insensitive in the light of day.

Honestly, for me, it is very easy to think of the B-52's on the news as part of some Bruckheimerian joke (same with 9/11, except the times I was choked with dry sobs).

If we could put all the armies in a massive arena on the Moon and have them duke it out there for pride, honor, and a massive trophy at the end of the season I would be happy. That or some way to work in Celebrity boxing.

Until then the truthful dark part of my soul keeps thinking better them than me.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:09 / 22.07.02

Is this like a FEMA-type thing? (Sorry- read many, many books by the very paranoid and actually mad Jim Keith, in which the role of FEMA, and the use of martial law in a state of emergency, played a very large role. Then he died suspiciously. THAT freaked me out.)
Could the two policies be used together to create something more than the sum of their parts? (If you see what I mean.)

17:41 / 22.07.02

Well, what worries me is that this seems to be martial law plus. There's already legislation to allow military action in case of emergencies. This to me seems to be saying "we've got a rolling emergency - civil rights should be suspended until further notice".

In certain exceptional circumstances, martial law might be appropriate, but making it easier to do that, well, you have to wonder about the motives.

I can't decide whether it's tough-guy posturing or they actually mean it. What would be the point?

I guess we'll see in coming months if there's serious attempts to push it through...

20:01 / 22.07.02

I myself am amused that all of the police state scenarios that the militia types in this country said would happen with Clinton in office, are happening under Bush the younger, with their approval.

20:04 / 22.07.02

Maybe the point is the timing itself. Tightening civil liberties little by little, announcing one new repression every two months (so the opposition to restriction won't be strong, or only temporary) until total control over citizens lives is achieved even on peaceful times (that if citizens themselves aren't already part of the control).
Am I being too paranoid?

Btw, Stoatie, what's this FEMA case (neve heard of it)? Is there a good link you can provide me with?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:20 / 22.07.02

Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Sorry... I'm very tired right now, and was gonna find some useful links, but got freaked out by the fact that the 2nd thing Google threw at me was a kiddies educational site about how to prepare for various emergencies.
Basically (I will add to this when less tired/pissed, I promise) Keith's paranoia was that when FEMA are called in, a state of emergency has been declared, and the constitution goes out the window. While this is, obviously, a cause for concern, whether FEMA itself is part of the "big conspiracy" is up for debate. (I seem to remember he saw the UN as the epitome of the New World Order. Obviously not noticing how ineffectual the UN actually is.)

XXII:X:II = XXX

00:46 / 23.07.02

Yeah, the FEMA scenario was the crux of the sinister motives in the X-Files movie. Not surprising that it took its present form during the Reagan administration (or, as we like to refer to it, the first two terms of George H.W. Bush's presidency).

It's too bad that a lot of very insightful people who figure out part of the plot get sidetracked somewhere and end up tacking on some bizarre, personally motivated frooferaw. Keith's got his "UN-as-world-government" paranoia (which sadly was not confined to him); none of these patriots seem to see that the UN Peacekeepers seem to function in much the same capacity as do the Washington Senators for the Harlem Globetrotters: Yeah, they're at every game, and they collect their paycheck from the same source, but they're pretty much there to make the star attraction look good, ie, the US Military. Then you've got Lyndon LaRouche, who, while very perceptive about matters of economy and their impacts upon international politics, also has this belief that the British Empire never really fell and is manipulating matters in much of the civilized world through finance, a theory likely borne of a Catholic upbringing, part and parcel of which is a few hundred years of religious oppression.

14:19 / 23.07.02

Cheers! I'll look for it on google, then, wanna know in which cases the FEMA can be called in (how would "emergency" be classified?).

14:27 / 23.07.02

FEMA's actual role (to date) has been in disaster relief - hurricanes, tordadoes, floods etc.

15:01 / 23.07.02

great. so your neighbors are working as spies for the executive branch while the military acts as a secret police answerable to no one but the executive branch.

Philip K. Dick, this is what you predicted and we all thought you were just paranoid. Sorry, dude.

Send down my pink laser, please! I'll be the one singing Evita lyrics...

"They had themselves a party at the point of a gun
They were slightly to the right of Attila the Hun
A bomb or two and very few objected"

13:06 / 24.07.02

Has anyone heard of the Department of Peace initiative?

" embodies a broad-based approach to peaceful, non-violent conflict resolution at both domestic and international levels. The Department of Peace would serve to promote non-violence as an organizing principle in our society, and help to create the conditions for a more peaceful world"

So what if it has no chance of being passed into law?