BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Losing weight

 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
 
Ariadne
11:05 / 18.07.02
odd jest ... sigh. are you joking, or just an arse?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:23 / 18.07.02
I think this has to be one of those 'gloves off' issues. Deva's posed a vexed question. There will be some answers which will annoy people. It's a given.
 
 
Ariadne
11:25 / 18.07.02
True enough. I'm too touchy on this subject to be calm, so I'll be off.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:28 / 18.07.02
Hm. Perhaps not quite the outcome I had in mind.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:35 / 18.07.02
Nice going....MACGUYVER!

Come back, Ariadne! He meant you can take the gloves off as well! Just say *why* OJOH is being an arse...
 
 
Ariadne
11:51 / 18.07.02
Oh I know, I know, but I don't like fighting. And I'm hungry and want to go and buy lunch rather than enlighten odd jest on how women are, you know, encouraged to stay thin and indeed to control their appetites and that therefore Deva's jeans are a very feminist issue.

But he should know all that. So lunch for me.
 
 
odd jest on horn
13:30 / 18.07.02
[shitfest]
So I'm an arse (because I'm obviously not joking) because you didn't understand a single word I was saying?
[/shitfest]

To reiterate, yes I know all that, but I don't see how a *way* of losing weight, when one has decided that one wants to lose weight can be feminist or anti-feminist.

And if you don't like fighting don't go about calling people names.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:35 / 18.07.02
To reiterate, yes I know all that, but I don't see how a *way* of losing weight, when one has decided that one wants to lose weight can be feminist or anti-feminist. <\b>

Then you haven't thought about it. Give yourself a couple of days and get back to me.
 
 
odd jest on horn
13:47 / 18.07.02
Please enlighten me.
 
 
Ariadne
14:03 / 18.07.02
I wrote all this out and then lost it. So this is a shortened version.

You can get thinner by starving yourself - it helps if you hate yourself first - by surviving on crisp breads and chucking up. Or spending a fortune on Slim Fast and keeping photos of yourself in a swim suit taped to the fridge.

Or ... you can get strong and healthy and let your body find its right weight.

I'm afraid the first is the norm for a awful lot of women, and it's seen as a positive thing. You should hear the discussions of cabbage soup diets in my office. But it's horrendous and damaging and generally bad news for women.

Can you see what I mean?

And I really don't like fighting, so you're right, I shouldn't call names. I was irritated by what seemed to be obtuseness, and I was hungry. It's the crispbread.
 
 
Persephone
14:08 / 18.07.02
Yes, but... I find that the big feminist question is whether one wants to lose weight in the first place. If you're resolved that satisfactorily --big if-- then the little questions are, to me, as nothing. I mean, I'd go so far to say... if you're fussing over the little questions, then you're not at peace with the big question.
 
 
Ariadne
14:11 / 18.07.02
Oh god, absolutely. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. The pressure to be thinner is always there and I think it's a nasty business.
 
 
Persephone
14:15 / 18.07.02
That "yes, but" was following Nick.

But to Ariadne, the crispbread women have definitely got the big question wrong.
 
 
odd jest on horn
14:21 / 18.07.02
I concede your point Ariadne. There are anti-self-esteem ways of losing weight, and since they're mostly pushed towards women, they're anti-female, true.

But Persephone said in one sentence exactly what I've been trying to get across.

However this is my interpretation of what I think this discussion is (in part) about:

Deva:
I want to fit in my jeans.
Me:
Oh you have a goal. How about using this way to achieve your goal? It involves exercise and a tiny bit of planning and writing.
Deva:
No, I couldn't possibly quantify my weight, it would be anti-feminist.
Me:
Huh? WTF? why?


I'm merely confused, and not deliberetaly obtuse. 'Cept when it comes to Haus ;-)
 
 
that
14:22 / 18.07.02
ojoh: I suggest, nay, heartily fucking recommend that you read Shadow on a Tightrope: Writings by Women on Fat Oppression (Eds. Schoenfielder and Wieser - actually, a lot of that book is great, and I highly recommend it to everyone) if you want to see some of the incredibly unfeminist ways in which women are coerced into losing weight in incredibly unfeminist ways - like the pregnant woman who was forced by her doctor (who shouted at her, told her she was a disgusting fat pig with no self control) to adopt a 500 calorie a day diet in order to shed pounds. Lik the intestinal bypass operations and stomach tucks that can kill, and regularly do, and leave their surviving recipients (or victims) with unbelievable health problems. And, like Ariadne and others have mentioned, like the millions of women (myself included - do you want to know how much fun laxative abuse can really be?) who fuck themselves over completely in order to be thinner.
 
 
Cat Chant
15:48 / 18.07.02
OJOH: At no point did I say that the alphabet, or writing, or indeed writing my weight down on bits of paper and treating my body like a production target in The Secret Life of Office was patriarchal. I just said that I wouldn't be comfortable with looking at weight loss as if it was just a question of numbers, and I wanted to think about some *other* ways of thinking about weight loss. Which would be feminist*. Ariadne has pretty much hit the nail on the head though I think. Have decided to love my body with fruit rather than hate it with diets.

*Unless I am much mistaken, saying that Thing B would be feminist is not tantamount to saying that Thing A is patriarchal.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:04 / 18.07.02
Random tips:

Talk to your GP about sensible ways to lose weight.
I don't know if you're a cheese fiend, but you might try substituting small quantities of speciality cheese for wodges of bland supermarket cheddar.
Like Ierne said: walk places. Get off the bus/tube a stop or two earlier.
Go to the park and play with your mates.
Eat spicy, metabolism-boosting foods.
Cut back on salt.
Cut back on bevvy, if you drink. Trade in the brewskis for spirits and diet mixer, or white wine.
Don't think about losing fat-- think about boosting muscle.
Treat this whole thing like a science project. It might work, it might not; either way, it's just numbers, right?

Don't read any women's mags, they're poison.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
16:21 / 18.07.02
Please enlighten me.

No. Did I say 'spend half a second typing a snotty reply and I'll do your thinking for you?' No. Use your loaf.
 
 
YNH
16:41 / 18.07.02
Okay, Deva, here’re some shared experience. I’ve been through the whole “I need to lose weight!” a few times. The first time I simply starved myself. I barely even realized it at the time and assumed being 6’1” and weighing under 120 lbs. was fine. My body had adapted to the point where I couldn’t eat a whole quesadilla without passing out. I dropped 40-50 pounds in 3-4 months. I think this was a pretty bad idea, but from time to time I still default to that as an ideal body image.

The next time I was simply not fitting in my clothes, and coming off a bad relationship. I started exercising, according to goals and a training schedule. I’d go to the gym after work every day, alternating between cardiovascular and muscular work, finishing off the week with yoga. Two meals were often protein shakes. My weight stayed the same as my waist slimmed to fit more comfortably into my clothes. I think the only reason this succeeded was ‘cause I had no classwork at the time. And yeah, I did “feel better” and I climbed some mountains and went hiking and it was nice. But I’m still reminded of what Kate Bornstein said about hir experience with scientology: “It works, but don’t try it.” And it hurts. Exercise, especially when you add goals, can be a nice way of punishing yourself and your body. It can also get obsessive; the kind of bulimia that doesn’t involve puking.

This last time I got a new pair of jeans for my birthday, to replace a favorite pair with holes in all the wrong places. One size larger than my “normal,” I was quite happy with the way they fit. Trouble was, I had plenty of clothes that still fit that norm rather well. So I’m working pretty much full time, doing classwork, and paying bills. The gym is too far away and I’m as strong as I need to be for the time being. So what do I do? Do I get up in the mornings and jog? Do I lift weights at home? Do I try to eat less? Life’s already pretty trying and none of that sounds healthy or fun. And anyway I truly hate jogging. So based on some newsbytes and the odd article in waiting room fitness rags, I decide I’ll try getting more walking out of my day. Basically I had to stop being fast and efficient about where I was going. I took stairs when possible (meaning two flights or less), and made multiple trips from one part of the building to the next. I walked when I was only travelling a short distance from home. In a couple months, I was able to fit into all my clothes. I still, pretty much always, drink a lot of water: 2 liters a day or so. And I usually go for a light lunch. But I don’t have the nagging ugly body feeling, and I didn’t have it really. In fact, with a little twisted ideology you can see it as an act of resistance against consumer culture: “I’m not buying more jeans.”

I dunno. That’s my experience with all the destructive bits intact.
 
 
grant
16:56 / 18.07.02
If concerned about "body image" problems, why not re-image body ideals?

Don't use "looks" or "actual number-based" weight as goal - use feel, or continuity (fits into jeans), or what it can *do* (climb three flights without getting winded) instead. Be non-visual

Of course, easier said than done. Me, I'm trying to be more bothered by the fact that I get winded running with my little dog than the fact that I've got love handles that are *starting to hang over my belt*! At least, that's what my eyes see.
 
 
odd jest on horn
22:26 / 18.07.02
Nick:

So my one-liner is snotty and yours is not? Prick.
Thankfully, Ariadne was able to put in words easily what you couldn't.
 
 
odd jest on horn
22:41 / 18.07.02
Deva:
You are correct, I was overinterpreting.

It just didn't strike me as non-feminist to write this stuff down and track the progress. To me the body *is* an object, a machine, a temple even. I have been treating it badly and now I'm treating it better. I'm treating it better the same way I'd take better care of a car or debug a computer program.

The stuff Cholister and Ariadne are talking about is definitely anti-female, so yes there are ways to lose weight which are not feminist. Somehow what I'm describing doesn't feel that way to me. But then I'm a guy and haven't been pressured all my life to fit into a certain mold physically, so I might be missing something.

Would it be any different if you were just tracking your progress exercise wise? What strikes me as particularely odd is that you admit to having a goal that you want to reach. If I have a goal, I *have* to track my progress towards it or I'll veer off. But that's just me and I was saying what works for me.
 
 
Thjatsi
08:54 / 19.07.02
No. Did I say 'spend half a second typing a snotty reply and I'll do your thinking for you?' No. Use your loaf.

Maybe I'm missing something, but this doesn't seem like the best way to persuade someone that your point of view is right.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:16 / 19.07.02
Tell you what, how about if Nick and OJOH just whack their bollocks onto the scales and we can weigh *them*?

I think loving the body with fruit is a ver' good plan. For the last week I have actually been trying to do the "5 portions of fruit or veg a day" thing, which has involved lots of small meals (an apple, a couple of apricots, some salad - basically lunch has become diffused through the day) and lots of hydrating with fruit juices. I have it only as an article of faith that this is less calorific than a snickers, a can of Diet Coke and a sandwich or two between 1 and 2 pm, but I hold it as an article of faith that it is *better*.

The next stage is no beer and less coffee...
 
 
Cat Chant
06:58 / 20.07.02
ynh: thanks - you've reminded me that what I think of as my 'normal' weight is actually 'my weight at the two periods in my life when I was unhappiest', and I like the idea of just being more halfassed about it, since I too associate exercise-plus-goals with punishment. Shall stop getting the lift in the Department (grumble, grumble).

also thanks MC, particularly about the cheeeese (which is, as you correctly divine, my downfall).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:49 / 20.07.02
Hmmm. Mine too. Try things like adding mustard to a cheese sarny or cheese sauce-- mustard cheesifys flavours so you don't need as much actual cheese.
 
 
grant
18:08 / 22.07.02
I'd like to third that. My repeated... well, it's not a mantra, but almost... "Cheese is my bete noir."
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:24 / 22.07.02
Ew. No, seriously. Ewwwwwwwwww!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:28 / 22.07.02
Know why I'm not two stone heavier than I am now? 'Cause I'm a lazy bastard, that's why. I put on weight so fast that I actually feel the change-- it's like having a big knapsack on that I can't put down. Add to that the combined effects of a) not being allowed to drive and b) being a bit of a fidgetbottom.
 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
  
Add Your Reply