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Dario Argento

 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:07 / 13.07.02
Watched "The Stendahl Syndrome" the other night. Seems a return to form. Dream logic, random misogyny, beautifully framed.
Question is: Does Argento's artfulness outweigh/subvert his (apparent) misogyny? (Sorry, none too coherent right now. If anyone's up for it, then have a fight. I'll turn up later.)
Is Argento a misogynist? Because the exact opposite could be argued. I just wanna see someone do it.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
23:46 / 13.07.02
i dunno if misogynist is exactly the right word... though i've screened suspiria for women who have been really upset by it, as it certainly delights in the aestheticization of women being violently murdered. it may or may not be an interesting element of the debate to point out that most of his films are written by a woman, his lover, the mother of his children, Daria Nicolodi.

and i agree, i remember liking Stendhal Syndrome quite a bit. Deep Red and Suspiria are breathtakingly gorgeous films, every shot perfect and the soundtracks completely amazing...i'm not entirely sure what he's trying to say with his films, other than the horror standby "the world is evil and out of our control," or something to that effect.
 
 
grant
15:50 / 14.07.02
It's pretty easy to make the opposite argument with Suspiria, since EVERY major character is a woman.
There's the creepy butler dude, there's the blind piano victim, and there's Udo Kier. All peripheral at best. Are there other men I'm forgetting?
 
 
glassonion
16:39 / 14.07.02
did argento do demons, the one where everyone goes ugly in a cinema? the pimp dude in that movie is one of the funniest screen mysogynists ever.
 
 
rizla mission
17:52 / 14.07.02
It's kinda hard to really decide whether or not to call Argento on the misogyny front. I mean, um, to take up Grant's point, Suspiria was set in a girls school, and as I remember, one of the most striking murders was the blind piano teacher guy..

..I certainly don't think Suspiria is any more misogynistic than Halloween or Scream.. but then again I haven't seen any of his other films..

My opinion on Suspiria, incidentally: brilliantly made, but it would have been nice if it had a script that wasn't complete hogwash.. not that it mattered with all the fantastic viuals, but it would have been nice..
 
 
Rev. Wright
19:58 / 14.07.02
Quick bit of trivia, Ther blind pianist was an Argento cameo, and his scream of 'STOP IT', was sampled by Ministry.

dario Argento was producer on Demons 1 and 2.


SPOILERS



To further the confusion on the subject of Misogyny, IN Deep Red there is a confusion to who the killer is, Son or Mother. The Mother revealing herself to be the most psychotic. There is also a objective view of sexuality, in both the character of the son and of a lesbian/bi couple.

In his skewed witches trilogy, Inferno, Suspiria and can't recall the third, if in fact he made one?. The main protagonist is an ancient evil witch coven. An embrace other the feminised other, common to the horror narrative.

Argento is known to have explored the secular psycho in his yellow thrillers, Tenebrae being his finest. Again this movie furthers the idea of having two killers, creating a supernatural feel, so ripped by Scream.

But as with his witches films, his movies Deep Red and Trauma both explore the savage mentality of the deranged mother figure.

more detailed response to come
 
 
Rev. Wright
22:36 / 25.05.06
Crikey, it's been a while for me to get back with a more detailed response but HERE is a little something I wrote on the subject
 
 
This Sunday
16:04 / 27.05.06
I don't really buy the misogyny angle, at least not 'Cannibal Holocaust' or 'Rambo: First Blood II' levels of misogyny. 'Suspiria', as has been pointed out, is populated mostly with women, so percentage-wise, that's who's involved in everything, including the dying.

It's a horror film, bad, one might even say 'horrible', things are going to happen. I don't get people who subject themselves to a horror film and are then revolted by the stuff that scared or distressed them. You might promise yourself, never again, but for that one time... you set yourself up. It's like watching a comedy and then being upset when the jokes are really funny.

The 'punished for deviant sexuality' thing, seems to me partly Argento, but primarily an audience-interpretation thing, since, from my perspective, the killers are always far more terminally fucked up than any of the victims. These are almost always all damaged people. Nobody's particularly blissful in an Argento film, just like the architecture, the atmosphere and even light, itself, is unhealthy and warped in his movies.

He does not, thankfully, fall right into the trap of having the slasher kill always during or just-post sex, which is the standard. The sex-punishment thing isn't particularly Argento's, so much as the invitational sex-death, or sex-revoltion, kick, similar to, say, 'Terror Firmer' or 'Psycho'. We're not being moralized or preached at, in that way only someone with real anger/frustration/hate issues can preach (and this makes up the bulk of the very misogynistic horror film field), but lured in, invited and taunted to belong, to accept, or to even try and make a pretense of not feeling the attractiveness. That's the pull of the feverdream panic, the big, colorful, whole hog delusional loveliness, which establishes his films as recognizable and creates enough of an ambient, an atmospheric, that we could, ostensibly, move in.

Dario Argento and Takashi Miike should direct a film each, from the same script, just once, purely for my personal entertainment. Something with a set-up resembling 'Antoine and Colette' perhaps.
 
 
Jackie Susann
22:56 / 28.05.06
It's like watching a comedy and then being upset when the jokes are really funny.

Isn't a more pertinent comparison, in Argento's case, 'it's like watching a comedy and then being upset when the jokes are almost all at women's expense, and the director seems to take great pleasure in ridiculing women'. Just saying.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
09:45 / 01.06.06
There's an interesting scene in Tenebrae when the protagonist (who's a novelist specialising in books about, wait for it, serial killers), defends his choice of victims (women and "deviants") by saying; "Yes, but they're being killed by a madman, a psychopath, and he's wrong" (not an accurate quote I'm afraid, bu summat' along those lines).

I always read that as Argento, who I'm sure was criticised along those lines, getting some excuses in in advance.

His postion on "Deviancy" is a bit odd as well. Tenebrae being a classic example.

SPOILERS

The killer (one of them, anyway), who wages his campaign of fear and murder against "deviants", is also the most stereotypically lisping, camp (which, I'm pretty sure, in 1970s trash movie speak, equates with queer) psychopath I've ever seen in a film. Now I realise this might have something to do with the voiceover on the dubbed version I watched, but I thought it was a point worth making. Where does this leave Argento standing?

Not that I mind too much, to be honest, I flippin' well love his films, and tend to agree that it's a bit silly watching a horror movie and then getting upset when something horrifies you.
 
  
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