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Warren Ellis Forum to close down

 
 
DaveBCooper
14:08 / 03.07.02
So, according to reports today on Comicon, the WEF is to close down in October (or thereabouts – see the reports for more on that).

Any comments ?
Do people feel this means we’ll see a new slew of ‘lithers as people look for somewhere comic-oriented to gab ?
And what about the suggested achievements of the Forum ?
Will another site become a ‘litmus’ for the comicreading community, do you think ?

I’d be interested to know.

DBC
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:20 / 03.07.02
Hey, that's great. The best thing is, we'll probably still be invite-only at that point, so we won't be overrun with Warren drones.


Here's the article: clickity!

Reading what Ellis has to say just made me want to smack him, really. Selfcongratulory crap. At least the guy knows to quit while he's ahead.

I will not miss the WEF, and I'm sure another haven for the more pretentious sort of fatbeard will emerge in no time. I think the politics of the WEF are fickle, shapeless, and self-serving. Good riddance.
 
 
sleazenation
14:27 / 03.07.02
There have been a number of off-shoot fora from the WEF for a long time now - I'm geussing most of the existing WEF members will head to one of them. Apparently Ellis has grown tired of his cult of late - banning people on increasingly spurious grounds and has talked of shutting it down for a while.

The WEF has undoubtedly had an impact on the industry - it has provided a direct link between creators and fans - given new comic creators a boost, and has been a major contributing factor to keeping small publishers, such as top shelf, alive in times of hardship. It has also served to propegate something of a sicophantic (sp!) cult of personality. There has also been a marked down turn in both quality and quantity of Warren Ellis' work in the last year, though the latter is usually ascribed to the illness Warren suffered last year.

So yes The WEF will go on, possibly in a much improved form unincumbered by the ego of its owner, but will it still attract a similar level of participation amongst other pros? or will it become just another fan site. Only time will tell.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:51 / 03.07.02
See, I think I'd be a lot more gung ho about the WEF if I shared the same definition of quality comic books that the WEF collectively has. I find most of what they champion to be very dull and tacky. I think that noble intentions and a lot of self-loathing aside, the WEF just reinforced existing comic shop culture. It is very hard to convince me that the 'innovations' attributed to the WEF are BECAUSE of the WEF - I think these are all natural progressions that would have happened anyway, and the WEF was simply in a right place/right time position.
 
 
The Natural Way
15:00 / 03.07.02
And I believe it's affiliated w/ something indescribably awful, calling itself "The Trenchcoat Brigade".
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:30 / 03.07.02
NAMBLA? Or is that the Dirty Mac Brigade?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:33 / 03.07.02
"The Trenchcoat Brigade"? What are you talking about? Those Columbine kids? A Gambit fanclub?
 
 
sleazenation
15:38 / 03.07.02
Sorry flux but i don't follow your logic - its almost like saying its wrong to credit Edmund hillary an sherpa tenzing as the first people to climb Everest on the grounds that someone else would have done it eventually.

While Ellis might be a self promoter who arguably fails to live up to his own hype, he HAS created the most vocal, influential and visible internet based fangroup out there. That much i feel deservese recogniton.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:15 / 03.07.02
Sorry flux but i don't follow your logic - its almost like saying its wrong to credit Edmund hillary an sherpa tenzing as the first people to climb Everest on the grounds that someone else would have done it eventually.

But Ellis DIDN'T do it first. There were comics forums before WEF came along, Usenet was around, a lot of creators were using them. Warren was the first guy to use a forum as a way of self-promotion and setting forth an agenda - I think that's a bad thing. I think that the most popular and well-regarded forum for comics on the net is/was little more than a branding excercise for a hack writer speaks volumes about the poor state of the mainstream comics industry. I don't think he deserves recognition for the WEF, so much as scorn. Seriously.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:03 / 03.07.02
Gee, maybe he'll have some time to write some actual comics then.
 
 
sleazenation
17:09 / 03.07.02
Flux

Read what i said again - I'm not saying it was the first - I'm saying it is the most visible, vocal and most influential. You may not like it but hey there it is.
 
 
bio k9
18:17 / 03.07.02
1. I just hope I never meet the couple that had their marriage saved by Warren Ellis and/or his forum.

2. Does this mean Jack Fear will start posting here more often?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
18:32 / 03.07.02
WEF showed me that comics are still a cult of personality, and a writer who has yet to have a comic break the top 50 can position himself as an "industry leader".

I like his writing. He should start doing some.

And no, the last 20 issues of Transmetropolitan don't count.

As for most visible? Newsarama is FAR more visible, just attracts the fanboy crowd.

Most influential? Internet discussion influences very little and should influence nothing. Writers should write, artist should draw and let the fans do what they will. When comics sold 250,000 copies a month of mid-line titles, they were done for a general audience, and the fan audience was given fan clubs and letters pages, but had next to no influence. Now that fans run the companies and distribution channels, comics are as viable a medium as radio drama...except that radio drama HAS MORE LISTENERS THAN COMICS HAVE BUYERS.
 
 
Ellis says:
07:28 / 04.07.02
Warren Ellis showed me how to win an arguement:

Say something anything.
Have lots of fanboys agree.
Have someone point out the problems.
Insult/ condescend to them to provoke them to do the same.
Once they reply in kind, use this as evidence that their arguements are nonsense.
Ban them.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
19:53 / 06.07.02
//1. I just hope I never meet the couple that had their marriage saved by Warren Ellis and/or his forum//

Nobody had their marriages saved by the forum; some couples actually met there. As our very own Tom, Ellis is responsible for some sex done around the world.

I'm very sorry to see the place go. It indeed helped Top Shelf. And a lot of people got to know good non-mainstream comics they had never seen before (anyone interested can easily detect trends there). It also helps me a lot to understand the comic bizz and to find new subjects when I get writer-blocked. =)

Along with Barbelith it's the closest thing to an actual online community I've experienced.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
20:15 / 06.07.02
I am interviewing Warren Ellis by e-mail right now:
Anybody have any burning questions you want answered that I could ask him?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:42 / 06.07.02
As I've said elsewhere, the "WEF saved Top Shelf" thing really bugs me. If the WEF didn't exist, the folks trying to save Top Shelf would've hit people up for money elsewhere. There's no way anyone is ever going to convince me that a similar type of community would NOT have existed if Ellis never decided to start up his bbs. I'm sick of seeing Ellis get credit for the work of his fanbase.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
00:37 / 07.07.02
Uh, what secret? Outta the loop...
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
02:01 / 07.07.02
I think my question would be why the pace on Transmet slowed so incredibly during the third year?

And if he thinks that comic writers spend too much time on chat boards and not enough writing.
 
 
Ganesh
10:26 / 07.07.02
Ask him if his physical appearance is deliberate.
 
 
sleazenation
12:29 / 07.07.02
I should imagine Ellis will always say that the perceived slowing in pace on transmet was him employong a more mangaesque approach to scripting.

I don't think it has been a particularly convincing or successful attempt. But hey that's what i imagine he'd say.

It might be interesting to ask him what he feels the role of the modern journalist is.
 
 
Ellis says:
12:49 / 07.07.02
I would like to know why he always writes the same kind of character?

Jenny Sparks, Pete Wisdom, Spider Jerusleum, Elijah Snow...
 
 
some guy
22:19 / 07.07.02
Because he can't write?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
23:11 / 07.07.02
I think he CAN write, he's just chosing not to. Some of his stuff has been very very good, but maintianing an on-going series seems to be a bit beyond what he can do.

And oddly enough, that is a major liability in comics and nowhere else. I could very easily see him doing a bunch of 4 - 6 part minis and having a nice collection of graphic novels.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:53 / 24.07.02
Despite the fact that visits to the WEF often drive me up the bleeding' wall - but hey, so do visits to Barbelith, sometimes - I think it's a shame, I honestly do. Although I applaud Warren Ellis for making the decision (too many people don't know when a good thing has reached the end of its run, and the place's signal/noise ratio seems to have deteriorated over the last six months, to my ears).

Whatever you think of the place, I maintain that lot of very talented writers/artists, and some very good work, have gained a lot of exposure from the WEF. Some people claim that they would have found this exposure anyway, via another route or routes, if the WEF did not exist... I guess from October onwards we get to find out, and in that sense, I hope they're right.

Interesting to contrast this thread with the one about Barbelith's potential demise on the WEF...
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
00:03 / 25.07.02
That's because we're snobby bastards who think we're ever so much better than them.

^_^
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
01:00 / 25.07.02
We are.

The WEF is a wonderful support group if you happen to be a twenty/thirty-something comic geek who tries to offset that image by being a chain-smoking, alcoholic manic depressive asshole. Extra credit if you happen to be a lesbian. Users there have as easily been elevated to Ellis' elite (how alliterative) for mediocre mimicry of his tone as they are stomped into the ground for refusing to be his accessories. Yes, some very good things have come out of the WEF, but I don't see many of them surviving past the forum's demise, not because of Ellis' absence but that the energy, even if it's negative, will be dispersed. In the end equation, good riddance.

As for his comics work, I will not claim not to have been a collector of several of his series, be they PLANETARY or the TRANSMET TPBs, and enjoyed them immensely. But I have a real problem with the man and how callously he treats those who look up to him. I don't think he wants to be admired, so let's grant his wish. As a friend made the comparison recently, "Regard Ellis as I regard Woody Allen: as a person, I think he's the biggest scumbucket on the face of the Earth, but anything he puts onto film and releases into the theaters, I'll go see, because they're hysterical."

He's probably right. But I haven't bought anything by Ellis, as little as there is, in at least a year, and I've yet to regret it.

Do I sound too hateful? Huh. There's probably a reason for that.
 
 
the Fool
05:14 / 25.07.02
On a funny side note, in the 'Barbelith is closing' thread over on WEF, our favourite troll shows up and starts mouthing off. Even abuses Ellis. He is quickly shouted down, and cut off. It all gets very 'look at the monkey, look!'.
 
 
klint
16:58 / 25.07.02
In defense of Transmet, although the story has slowed down the art is still wonderful and the bigger panels really look quite nice.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
17:31 / 25.07.02
Some of you guys are letting your Ellis-hate blur your vision about the importance of an online community, young padawans. =)

And, hey, is this place being shut down too?
 
  
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