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Music and Soul

 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:55 / 03.07.02
Said elsewhere:

And soulless music is despicable and completely unnecessary, IMHO

I'm torn. Does this describe some universal truth, or is it the most fatuous single statement in the history of the universe? How does one describe "soul", and is it necessary to make music worthwhile. What makes a piece of music "soulless" Can music with soul be shitter than music without soul, or is music without soul the absolute nadir?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:07 / 03.07.02
'Soul', in this context, is a completely subjective term and effectively meaningless. The only common ground that you're going to find in different people's definitions of 'soulless' is that everyone will apply it to music that they don't like. It's about as useful a term as 'talent'.

I can imagine 'Nesh grinding his tusks over this one already.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:09 / 03.07.02
Does this have anything to do with black people?
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:13 / 03.07.02
Because I know a few, and I could ask them.
 
 
Sax
12:38 / 03.07.02
"All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted," as Rush so sagely sang.

Where machinery in this case is the soulless music industry. Again, a definition of soul is needed here, and I imagine that most of this thread will be taken up with a discussion of that.

But my two farthings: If we mean that soul equates with writing your own songs, playing your own instruments, refusing to sign to a major label (until a lot of money is offered), playing gigs in cellars in New York, then it is of course completely false to claim that anything other than this is despicable and unnecessary. There are a lot of *good* pop songs that don't have this kind of soul. Popular music, like everything else today, is disposable, and if "soulless" music provides three minutes of pleasure to your kid sister, your mum, or your gran, then what's the problem? If you don't like music without soul, then don't listen to it. But don't expect everyone in the world to lovingly stroke their limited seven-inch Gorky's Zygotic Mincy EP on your say so.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:42 / 03.07.02
All kidding aside, does anyone know the genesis of the term "soul music" (or "soul food" for that matter)? W/R/T to the word's origin as applied to music matters, there's obviously a racial component involved here (and in the original post in the "hated music thread", the artists cited as being soulless were pretty much the standard "whitebread" targets).
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
13:51 / 03.07.02
Mr. Dupre said:
"'Soul', in this context, is a completely subjective term and effectively meaningless. "

And as the person who made the comment about soulless music in the first place, I completely agree. That's where the "IMHO" part comes into play. I never meant to claim that it was an objective standard at all, but rather that it described music which, to me, seems completely devoid of spirit. Like the three examples I offered (Steely Dan, Jackson Browne, and James Taylor). These acts seem, to me, to have made a career out of going through the motions. They may have talent in one arena or another, but they fail completely in moving me or in being at all compelling. It's almost something I can't describe. I feel a great sense of emptiness whenever I hear music from the aforementioned "artists", like I'm staring into some expansive vacuum wherein nothing could possibly survive. That may sound like invective, but they quite seriously make me feel almost ill.

As regards Randy's later comment, that "(t)he only common ground that you're going to find in different people's definitions of 'soulless' is that everyone will apply it to music that they don't like," I don't necessarily agree. There's a lot of music that I don't particularly like but that I think a lot of heart and conviction went into. Dave Matthews Band might be a good example of this. I can't personally stand them, but I think they put a lot of themselves into what they do and I can respect them for that. Celine Dion is like arsenic in my oatmeal, but I think that her voice conveys some level of conviction on her part in what she sings (however misguided that conviction may be). I don't respect her artistically, but I think that she has the ability to move people emotionally. Perhaps some people are moved by my list of soul-sucking non-entity artists, but I sure don't know any.
 
 
rizla mission
15:11 / 03.07.02
"All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted," as Rush so sagely sang.

They sang that? No wonder everyone says they're shit..

But seriously folks, isn't "it's got soul", in it's common usage, just another more interesting way of saying "I like it"? also see: "it rocks" "it's got a good beat" "it's life-affirming" "it's really well crafted" etc. etc.

Trying to find a working definition of "soul" as applied to pop music is not a task I'd really want to get involved in..
 
 
autopilot disengaged
19:31 / 03.07.02
i don't think it is meaningless - i think it means caring passionately about something worth caring about. obviously this is always gonna be subjective, but my definition, i think, hints at where it may originate - deep belief. the roots of R&B etc were nourished in gospel...

yes/no/don't know.
 
 
{unknown user}
20:19 / 14.07.02
I reckon no matter what your definition of soul, no-one wants it in music all the time. It's like talking - sometimes you have deep conversations with people, sometimes you just chat about everyday stuff. There's nothing wrong with a bit of shallow music, as long as it's good, and as long as you can appreciate deep stuff too...
 
 
glassonion
20:24 / 15.07.02
i got soul, you got soul, all god's chillun got soul. like rizla said, if you liked it, it hit yer soul, hence soul music.
 
  
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