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Underground > Radio & Music >

Justify Tenacious D if you can.

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Our Lady of The Two Towers

09:20 / 26.06.02

Because I've seen the video for 'Tribute' and I think it's a pile of crap, weakly justified using the 'irony' excuse.

I've been trained from birth to kill men like these.

So tell me why I shouldn't.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:55 / 26.06.02

Faster Lada, kill kill kill!

They're comedy rock. They're disgustingly ugly men who write songs called 'Fuck Her Gently'. One half of them is Jack Black, star of 'Shallow Hal', about how funny it would be if Gwyneth Paltrow were fat (this despite the fact that Black himself is a prime suspect in the ongoing "pie? who ate them?" mystery).

KILLMAIMHURTDESTROY!

11:35 / 26.06.02

For anyone who's having trouble putting faces to the names, these are the never-too-clever wags this thread's about:

But to answer the question, I've never heard their music and am in no great rush to hear their music. Novelty songs are just that--novelties. I try to find music that I'll want to hear 10 years down the line and I doubt this will ever be it.

11:54 / 26.06.02

Um, it's fun. A joke. Takin' the piss, as it were.

Their song about Ronnie James Dio is the funniest thing I've heard all year.

But I suppose Flyboy might like them more if they were pretty.

Matthew Fluxington

12:14 / 26.06.02

Wow. I know I'm not alone in thinking that Jack Black is a very sexy man.

I think you Tenacious D haters are out of yr minds, and are being very humorless. If yr going to write off Jack Black so easily, you've clearly never seen Mr. Show, Heat Vision and Jack, the old HBO Tenacious D series, his guest-host episode of SNL, or the "Wonderboy" video. I'd say that JB is funny even in the worst films that he appears in (Shallow Hal, Saving Silverman, Orange County). He's a charismatic, talented man.

I can sort of understand why some of you UK Lithers don't really get the joke as much, Jack Black and Tenacious D are EXTREMELY American things, I can imagine a lot of it gets lost in the translation overseas. It's probably a lot like how things like Withnail & I don't go over very well with American audiences.

Even still, I find the "they're ugly and fat!" sentiments in Flyboy's post to be sort of disturbing, and a bit unexpected from Mr. Headshop.

Anyway, Dio has rocked for a long, long time. Now it is time for him to pass the torch - to JB and KG.

12:22 / 26.06.02

Jack Black also did an excellent job hosting this year's MTV Movie Awards. The "spiderman" sketch was priceless.

"Make out with me you will"

The Apple-Picker

12:58 / 26.06.02

Wow.

I am really disturbed by the fat-phobia here.

Flyboy wrote: They're disgustingly ugly men who write songs called 'Fuck Her Gently'. One half of them is Jack Black, star of 'Shallow Hal', about how funny it would be if Gwyneth Paltrow were fat (this despite the fact that Black himself is a prime suspect in the ongoing "pie? who ate them?" mystery).

That's kind of weird. Flyboy implies criticism of Shallow Hal because Gwenyth Paltrow being fat is part of the, ahem, humor of that movie. That criticism is certainly deserved, since the whole movie is about seeing someone's "true" and "inner" beauty, and that's represented as being terribly skinny. But then the "they're ugly men" thing kind of contradicts the sentiments you would think motivated that criticism. Especially the "'pie? who ate them' mystery" considering how Jack black may count as a stocky man now, but not really a fat one. Look at that magazine cover.

And I don't find them disgustingly ugly at all. I think Jack Black is cute. But, to each her own, right?

That said, I think they are funny. I laughed and laughed at Tribute and got addicted to replaying it on my RealPlayer. That's my favorite one.

Should I start singing Proud to Be an American? No. I will spare you.

The Return Of Rothkoid

13:25 / 26.06.02

Er, like has been pointed out, it's a joke. However, I think it's more in line with Spinal Tap than, say, Kiss. They're attempting to present that whole idea of "we rock! out! and hard!" that big hair bands presented as their own, while coupled with the inanity of some gone-to-seed versions of Beavis and Butthead. At least, that's what I heard when I first heard about them - and this was about a year and a half before the album even got mentioned. I think it's less cynical than people give it credit for: they actually can play (cf: "Rock Your Socks Off" for the Bach break) and to all intents and purposes, they do believe it. Why not? How's that any more of a pose than The Hives or, say, Monster Magnet?

As far as the recordings go, I'm not hugely fond of the album. It wears very thin. The live recordings, however - which used to be floating around online in MP3 format and probably still are - are much better. There's a sense of vibe that you don't get through the properly-recorded stuff, and it's not as overplayed. They're just two guys with guitars who think they're famous. It's pretty much incidental that Jack Black is famous now... the whole thing works on the basis of "two losers rock out" which appeals to pretty much anyone who's ever attempted to play a Rock Classic on their first Ibanez, or what-have-you.

Like many quirk/joke bands, they don't bear close scrutiny on album well. Live, and live-recording, it's a different matter.

And they know Beck! Which doesn't count for much in my neck of the woods, as I think he's vastly overrated, but... they know Beck! I think the whole thing started as an amusing timewaster - much like my porno band. It just got bigger than The Sons Of Onan have, that's all.

Videodrome: you do know that there is a picture of them, with Dio, who's "passing the torch" to them, doncha? More rock than one can handle.

No star here laces

13:53 / 26.06.02

Euch. Please. Comedy-rock? Why are we even discussing this in the music forum?

13:56 / 26.06.02

I think the joke is a bit more obvious (and funnier) if you've seen the television series - in which unlikely rock stars KG and JB dress in sweatpants, dub themselves the "greatest band on earth" and sing their tremendously earnest rock ballads at Open Mike Night of the local bar. The irony is very obvious when Jack and Kyle finish a song, strike a "rock pose" and are met with only the faintest applause from the handful of totally uninterested patrons, and then hurried off the stage by the club owner who clearly doesn't like them that much.

The new superstardom they seem to be enjoying is completely at odds with the original joke, but what can you do?

And yes, the music is a joke, but I think it's also really catchy - I sing along to the album all the time. They really are good musicians.

One tip for the album - I bought it and then burned a custom copy of it, removing all the spoken word stuff between the songs, which were funny the first time but wear thin pretty quickly (except maybe "inward singing" which is brilliant).

Long live the D.

14:00 / 26.06.02

Forgot to say that I saw them in concert a few months ago and it's one of the greatest shows I've EVER been to.

Matthew Fluxington

14:14 / 26.06.02

Lyra:

Euch. Please. Comedy-rock? Why are we even discussing this in the music forum?

Ronald Thomas Clontle:

Humor has no place in music.

14:35 / 26.06.02

I don't know about this tenacious D business, but I'd like to go on record as saying that Ronnie James Dio does NOT need to pass the Torch of Rock, nor will he ever need to.

The Metal Midget rules.

14:55 / 26.06.02

It's probably a lot like how things like Withnail & I don't go over very well with American audiences. – Flux not = Richard E. Grant

I'll get you for that next time I see you, Flux.

Regrettable Juvenilia

16:27 / 26.06.02

They call me Mr Head Shop...

Just to clarify a few things:

1) When I saw that Tenacious D are ugly men, I don't mean anything so basic as the arrangement of their facial features. Their whole schtick is ugly to me. Ugly, ugly music, ugly ugly humour, ugly sentiments, ewwww, ewwww, EWWWWW! Ugly in their SOULS.

2) I never actually called them "fat and ugly", just pointed out that the central premise of 'Shallow Hal' is deeply hypocritical and misogynistic, a bit like when that poster GRIM said "is it okay to be fat? well, I'm not too slender, so I guess it is - unless you're a hideous beached whale of a bitch", or something like that.

3) Flux, I expect better of you than to call someone "humourless" for not finding something funny that you find funny. Have this special Knodge ankle-bracelet...

4) I have heard their music, you know. I don't like it. If I put it like that, will it be okay?

Matthew Fluxington

16:50 / 26.06.02

When I saw that Tenacious D are ugly men, I don't mean anything so basic as the arrangement of their facial features. Their whole schtick is ugly to me. Ugly, ugly music, ugly ugly humour, ugly sentiments, ewwww, ewwww, EWWWWW! Ugly in their SOULS.

Don't you think that's a massive overstatement, whether you think they are amusing or not? This is exactly what I mean by 'humorless' - it is intentionally ridiculous, and I think yr judging it on unfair terms. It's a goof, man. The whole "humor has no place in music" thing is ridiculous - you even beat Lyra to the punch: 'They're comedy rock'. Yeah? So? The difference between them and the Moldy Peaches is what, exactly? I would think the sentiments and humor in a lot of the Moldy Peaches songs are a lot more suspect than anything that the D have to offer.

I do think yr conveniently changing yr 'ugly' comment after the fact.

17:05 / 26.06.02

Ive heard the album, once. I liked it - I thought it was funny, and the music wasnt too shabby, either. I can see how people wouldnt like them – they are a bit abrasive. however, Im not sure how the prevalence of humor outright negates their status as musicians. or even the fact that their songs are strictly comical (albeit arguably so). Im not sure why anyone would think that music and humor cant possibly go together. its all entertainment, right?

17:31 / 26.06.02

Taking Lada's initially mentioned 'Tribute' as a starting point, we've got a foolish tall tale about writing the greatest song in the word. And then forgetting it.

How's that ugly? Stupid, sure. Unfunny? Might be, depending on yer sense of humor. But ugly, ugly? Ugly in their Souls? Christ. You need to get out a bit.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

17:41 / 26.06.02

Okay, most of this is based on seeing clips from both High Fidelity and Shallow Hal, and the fact that Jack Black has taken roles which make you want to take him into a back alley and beat him repeatedly around the head.

And interesting that some of the people defending them in this thread seem to work on the assumption that comedy = no need for standards. Did Spike Milligan die for nothing?

I know from one listen to the Tribute song what the humour is. I don't know, I'm British, so I assumed that SNL spawned new comedy, not people saying "Hey! You know Spinal Tap?"
"Yeah?"
"Let's do them!"
"Okay. And...?"
"Whaddya mean 'and'?"

Jack The Bodiless

17:41 / 26.06.02

Nice one, 'drome...

Hey Flux - check out the above post. Now that's humourless...

17:46 / 26.06.02

Unless it's the quality of the jokes that's the reason behind the dislike (as seems to be the case with Lada's original post), attacking the entire notion of comedy rock is a point of view that veers very close to the territory of criticism on the basis of 'artistic worth'.

I could quite easily be wrong here, but the problem with comedy in music seems to be that it doesn't last. The jokes are funny once or twice, but the music itself has to be entertaining if the act's going to be palatable in anything other than the short-term.

Was going to mention The Moldy Peaches, but Flux beat me to it. Somebody's really going to have to explain to me how they're anything more than a Sultans Of Ping FC for the Strokes generation.

Jack The Bodiless

17:51 / 26.06.02

There's a Strokes generation now? That's it. People need to die.

The Return Of Rothkoid

22:56 / 26.06.02

As if you needed an excuse.

02:11 / 27.06.02

Well considering this is their first album...I dont think Weird Als first album was comedic masterpiece and I think alot of first albums will never be reagard as the peak of a muscians career.

Well they're never going to be inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame..and they know it.

That Spumco guy did their Fuck Her Gently video and that was nicely done much better than alot of the crap videos out there.

But the thing I like best is Jack Black got his hand blownoff by Bruce Willis in The Jackal.

07:09 / 27.06.02

They are extremely talented musicians, a friend saw them a couple years ago and they covered the entire second side of Rubbber Soul.

The Natural Way

07:55 / 27.06.02

"Have this special Knodge ankle-bracelet..."

I'm beginning to think "Knodge" may be well on the way to becoming a great substitute for words like c*** on the lith. reading Fly's post I actually found myself winceing and felt the deperate urge to track him down and insist he "Take it back! Don't you call Flux a KNODGE....."

No star here laces

14:34 / 27.06.02

Re: humour in music

There is a big difference between music with a sense of humour and a joke record. It's the difference between Joe Dolce and Eminem. Music made as a joke and with no purpose beyond being a joke is, has always been and always will be utter disposable shite. It's for people who wear comedy ties, who think 70s nights are a good idea and who tell "knock knock" jokes.

Fuck comedy rock.

14:41 / 27.06.02

Ahhhh, shadduppayouface.

15:32 / 27.06.02

Music made as a joke and with no purpose beyond being a joke is, has always been and always will be utter disposable shite.

What about songs like You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You're Drunk or a bunch of Eminem's stuff? Something can be made as a joke and still be quite clever and worthy, which is why Monty Python is held in such high regard.

You can deliberately make music as a joke and still be witty, intelligent and musically accomplished. I'd point to Army of Lovers and Sparks for starters...

16:09 / 27.06.02

Did you not read the sentences immediately above the one you just quoted, which defined the difference between "music with a sense of humo(u)r" and "joke records"?

And Monty Python "held in high regard"?

As comedy, yes: but held in high regard as music?

I repeat: shadduppayouface.

16:33 / 27.06.02

Did you not read the sentences immediately above the one you just quoted, which defined the difference between "music with a sense of humo(u)r" and "joke records"?

There is no post in this thread attempting to define the difference between "music with a sense of humor" and "joke records."

17:40 / 27.06.02

Read Lyra's last post again. It does exactly that, at least to the same extent that your own does. It also makes the same point about Eminem as you do. All very odd, considering that's the one you quoted from.

18:05 / 27.06.02

Read Lyra's last post again. It does exactly that

No, it doesn't. Lyra claims there is a difference, but does not begin to explain what that difference is nor why one is better than the other.

The Return Of Rothkoid

21:51 / 27.06.02

And that debate doesn't help me get tickets to the London gig, so I can bore you all into submission with how great they were live.

Grump.

No star here laces

09:50 / 28.06.02

Joke record = "hey, that's a funny gag, let's make it into a record"
Music with humour = "this is a great tune, wouldn't it be funny if..."

Geddit? It's the primacy of humour over music that makes joke records shit. If you could still tell the joke without the music, it's a joke record.

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