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Make Mine A Molotov

 
  

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Shortfatdyke
20:15 / 23.06.02
i've barely left the house this weekend, but after i ventured out yesterday, i was left with two enduring, and rather grim, images, both things i'd never seen before.

the first was a wheelchair user trying to get on the bus. it was one of those new buses that can lower themselves to let the less mobile get on. well the driver lowered the bus but there was still no way the bloke could get on. eventually the driver just went off and the bloke just had to sit there and hope the next one was easier to get on.

a bit later, i was on a bus, coming back from a friend's house in leyton. i could see a house with england flags hanging out the windows - not unusual at the moment - but as the bus passed it i saw that the flags were covered in swastikas. it made me feel wierd, more than anything else, that people could be so upfront, knowing that it would intimidate people, presumably having that as the intention. but it struck me that the house was on a grotty main road, in front of it was some grass that was really overgrown and been used as a rubbish dump. part of me wanted to ask them why they believed it was okay to have swastikas all over the front of their house, but another part just wanted to see the place in flames.
 
 
netbanshee
04:42 / 24.06.02
hmm..understand your feelings...

old men alone early on Sunday mornings in the corners of restaurants hit me the "wheelchair guy" way.

Been seeing a bunch of roadside memorials lately in my travels and have been noticing how much more depressing they could be when unattended to for after a year or so. Watching the perky teddy bear against the tree become a formless mass. It's hard fo some things not to hit you. Thinking of doing a photo project on it though...turn it into something better...
 
 
bitchiekittie
12:14 / 24.06.02
anyone who has a confederate flag in their window is pretty much confessing to having a shotgun

no point. just saying we have a lot of hillbillies for a big city
 
 
Shortfatdyke
12:40 / 24.06.02
and now, if it were possible, i'm even more depressed. started a discussion on slash fiction on a science fiction website, and basically got treated like shit. apparently i am not a serious writer, and have zero talent.

fucking marvellous.
 
 
that
12:41 / 24.06.02
Ignore the fuckwits. Honestly. Throw a troll in their direction, I am sure they'd get on famously...
 
 
bitchiekittie
12:57 / 24.06.02
dont let an overpopulation of idiots and jerks get you feeling inadequate - other peoples nastiness often has much more to do with their own shortcomings than yours
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:57 / 24.06.02
SFD- What's this website? I want to look at the idiots.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
13:05 / 24.06.02
it's at www.ttapress.com - click on 'messageboards' along the top, then go to 'on writing', the thread title is 'slash fiction'. i've posted under my so-called 'real' name. feel free to dive in, too....
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:17 / 24.06.02
Hmmm. Perceptive comment doesn't seem to be the strong-suit of some of the people there, does it?
 
 
The Apple-Picker
14:35 / 24.06.02
Good lord. That Gabe character is a total dolt. Don't spend any more time arguing with him. He's not going to change his mind. The whole nonsense about him not having issues with homosexuality (then why on Earth did he even *mention* the sexual orientation of who he perceives to be slash-writers in his list of why slash is crap?) is bunk.

He also kind of seems to assume that Cholister is queer because she defends slash.

I wanted soooo much to post something over there, but realized the futility.

So this is my rant on why I'd like a Molotov, too, please.
 
 
that
15:12 / 24.06.02
Cholister is queer... but she'd defend slash even if she wasn't... Gabe and friends seem completely unable to get their heads round the notion that slash is not exclusively, or even primarily, a queer-led phenomenon... or pretty much anything, actually. Hence the futility...
 
 
The Apple-Picker
15:37 / 24.06.02
But whether or not Cholister is queer, what's the relevence to the validity of slash? Or the relevence to the validity of your points?

Okay, maybe I'm not in the mood for a molotov cocktail. I could go for a martini, though. And a new hairdo.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:42 / 24.06.02
It's getting terribly shouty over there...on both sides, before anyone gets their affronted on.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
16:03 / 24.06.02
very interested to read and much appreciate the input of you barbefolk on that thread. the sf 'community' can be terribly conservative and i definately think the 'queer' aspect of slash freaks some of them out. and the 'politics' of ownership of characters makes it even worse - presumably because some want to get famous and not have their own characters sauntering off courtesy of other people. me, i'd find it flattering, as long as it was done well and was true to the original character.

but as i say, that particular community has rather made it clear in the past that it's fine to be queer, as long as no one ever knows about it. and i LIKE the hooker slash i've written, dammit! it wasn't a waste of time!
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
16:19 / 24.06.02
Well, apparently the powers that be are deleting that thread. Purely because apparently the question (ie: "how do you rate slash") has been answered. IN terms of "slash bad, mmmmm'kay?", methinks.

Hmmm.
 
 
bitchiekittie
16:28 / 24.06.02
"if you didn't want to respect peoples' honest opinion, you shouldn't have asked for it"

am I terribly judgemental to read this as "just accept the fact that people are uncomfortable with this and drop it"
 
 
that
16:28 / 24.06.02
Quote: But whether or not Cholister is queer, what's the relevence to the validity of slash? Or the relevence to the validity of your points?

Thasss what I meant by 'she'd defend slash even if she wasn't'. Sorry, Apple-Picker, wasn't disagreeing with you...

I know, Haus, I know it is heavy on the shouty. I tend to go into troll-defence mode with people that piss me off... it is a bad habit, probably, but seeing as I tend to just hit and run on all boards but Barbelith, it doesn't seem to matter much...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:38 / 24.06.02
Couldn't even find a "messageboards" thingy... probably just as well, eh.
How'd'ya think that homophobic attitude squares with TTA's editorial policy? Cos I used to buy (well, okay, steal) that magazine, and I kind of liked it. (It was obsessed with Iain Sinclair. Of COURSE it was good.)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:42 / 24.06.02
Oh, and to go back to your original post (seems so long ago now)... any house displaying swastikas can morally, ethically and rightly be burnt down. And your friends (even the virtual and imaginary ones) are equally justified in making up alibis or what have you.

(THIS POST PROVIDED FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY.)
 
 
w1rebaby
18:13 / 24.06.02
the sf 'community' can be terribly conservative

that's what struck me about that thread; the utter failure to understand the concept of appropriation as anything other than character theft. Probably don't like sampling either, and think people should play real instruments.

Hey, you need to hang out here with the cool kids...

the "slash is rubbish and anyone who writes it is probably queer" comment really did make me laugh. Yeah, obviously there's no homophobic element there.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:25 / 24.06.02
No molotovs, but I have soooo got to write piles and piles of sf until I take over the community in the name of straddling, meaningful glances, and characters who haven't looked at a woman since their wife died six years ago. Then we'll see who's serious. Bwahahaha...
 
 
The Apple-Picker
18:31 / 24.06.02
Quote from the place where the debate used to exist: "Good thinking, Marie. There was an awful lot of posturing going on in here."

You all had better stop that posturing. It's an awful lot.

I mean, you couldn't possibly believe all those things you were writing.

[/muck raking]
 
 
Shortfatdyke
06:28 / 25.06.02
stoatie - no, tta magazine and its editor, andy, are pretty sound. he was one of the first people i came out to. it really bothered me when someone tried to drag him into it, basically hoping he'd take the piss out of me and cholister. but i saw the email he sent the moderator and let's just say he thinks i have slightly more than zero talent. i'm a proper writer! phew!

as for the board, well i found out later that i (and, it goes without saying, you lot) had seriously pissed off a very well known british sf writer. and he thinks i got a bunch of people together to steamroller slash and flaunt our horrible sexual deviancies in the face of the worthy. he is called us 'rival forces', which sound rather majestic doesn't it? seriously - i just wondered what the tta types thought of slash. there was no agenda other than to start a discussion. i asked the question in a really low key, 'chatty' fashion - i deliberately wrote in a different style to the way i try to express myself on barbelith. i think this showed when some of you lot arrived - the level of the debate whooomped upwards. very interesting!

i'm wondering how i would have reacted to the 'big name' author had i know it was him. hopefully the same way. i haven't read any of his books, but he sounded interesting in an interview i read (in tta i think). think i still want to read one of his novels, but it's certainly healthy to remember that a good writer is not necessarily a good person. and vice versa. i find the bloke pompous and more than a little uncomfortable with queers. but that doesn't mean he can't write. the only thing that does bother me, though, is that i haven't exactly made new friends in the sf community. it was made clear a while ago that i should shut up about being queer. this is not going to do my 'career' any favours, but fuck it. i'd rather be honest.

and it really meant a lot to me that people bothered to support the discussion. thank you.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:46 / 25.06.02
M John Harrison - I read a couple of his books many, many years ago. Quite liked them, in an "Ian Miller covers" sort of a way, but he really isn't coming across as very bright at the moment, is he? That thing about special interest groups learning "in recent debate" that the best way to "take an arena" was to flood it....bless.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:16 / 25.06.02
I'm so fucked off that moderator deleted the thread before I could read all of it. Urrgh.

Rarrgh.

Also, should add: the way that Gabe bloke kept going on about "snorting into his coffee" really made me need to inflict pain.

Shocked and irritated by the lack 0f open-mindedness....beginning to see what a good thing we're onto here. Happy here. Love Tom. Apart from posting limits.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
13:32 / 25.06.02
runs - just think of one bloke going 'whoa! queers!', another being a pompous ass and the barbelith cavalry riding in just when shortfatdyke and cholister are ready to collapse under a heavy burden of condescending remarks and closed minds.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:39 / 25.06.02
Yes, but I SO wanted to hear the trumpeting of their bugles!

Who weighed in, then?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:46 / 25.06.02
Er. Me.

Repeatedly.

...with a PLANK!

Hmmm.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:53 / 25.06.02
Hmmm, maybe I should sue where I work for preventing me from keeping up to date with Barbelith...
 
 
Shortfatdyke
13:53 / 25.06.02
they needed a bit of cudgelling. i outed myself early on in the thread cos i didn't want to be accused of being a 'repressed homosexual', and that didn't go down well (apparantly i was only there to foist 'issues' on poor innocent serious writers), chol wrote some stuff that required more than one braincell to digest, which pissed people off no end, and then rothkoid, orr, bitchiekittie and haus appeared over the horizon. if i've left anyone out, it's only because yesterday was both abysmal and wonderful.

anyway, brought a tear to my eye. and made me realise how high the standard of the average barbedebate is.
 
 
Rev. Orr
16:07 / 25.06.02
Well, the horse needed a run... Seriously, this could get addictive. Sweeping in, 'foisting issues', riding off into the sunset in a cloud of dust, light glinting off our sabres. This power must be used for good, damnit.

In 1992 some crack, free thinkers were sent to a cyber ghetto for thoughtcrimes they didn't commit. They promptly escpaed to the Barbelith Underground. Today, still hunted by their egos they survive as virtual soldiers of fortune. If you have an argument, if no-one else can help and if you can stomach their over-extended jokes, maybe you can hire...

...The B-Team.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
13:32 / 26.06.02
for the information/amusement of the rival forces of barbelith:

"In other news, there was an excellent debate on the nature and scope of character ownership. It was started when one of the TTA authors wanted to debate the pros and cons of Slash Fiction. Ugh, this is the worst sort of drivel, taking characters out of context and putting them into gay relationships with their contemporaries (hence the slash, as in Kirk/Spock). Those who write it can't understand why authors would object, and throw out the names of famous sociologists who write it as though that could alleviate the transgression.
What they can't seem to understand is the issue behind the trespass. I write my fiction, I spend hours doing it. I sweat blood. I stay awake nights. I don't want some needle dick coming along and warping my work to their ends for some masturbatory and ultimately banal circle-jerk fiction.
But that's just me..."

so reads the blog from bob, one of the less intelligent contributors to the 'debate' the other day. do you think he may possibly not have understood the point?

p.s. i've wanked over my own fictional characters, but never a slashed pair. is that helpful?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:23 / 26.06.02
I'm wanking over the idea of Bob refusing to wank over a hypothetical slash writer wanking over Seven of Nine wanking over Janeway.

Does that make me gay?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
14:30 / 26.06.02
needle dick?

is penile girth the measure of lieterary worth over there?
 
 
bitchiekittie
14:32 / 26.06.02
let him scoff - I repeat what I said there: it seems to me that its an interesting creative effort to put familiar characters into unfamiliar situations and still maintain their basic traits and personalities. why not view it as an exercise of your skills?
 
  

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