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Help for a tattoo

09:02 / 22.06.02

For the past eight years I've had a peace-sign tattooed on my chest. I'm still proud I had it at the tender age of eighteen and proud that I was a pacifist at the time, but I haven't felt entirely comfortable with it for some time now. I feel a need for something a bit more.. ironic, maybe.

So I suddenly understood what needs to be done: I need to transform it into the symbol of the PAX-force in the Martha Washington-series, and add some text. So the help I need is from the latin-versed section of Barbelith.

I know that "the peace of Rome" is Pax Romana and "the peace of America" is Pax Americana, but what is "the peace of Empire" in Latin? Pax Imperica? Pax Imperialis? Help me out?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:33 / 22.06.02

Just phoned me mum... she used to teach latin. Unfortunately she wasn't in. But hopefully she'll call back. Though I imagine you'll probably have an answer before then.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:34 / 22.06.02

none

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:50 / 22.06.02

Pax Imperii- means "peace of empire", "peace of command" or "peace of power".
Dunno if that's any help, but if it is, then thank my mum.

00:12 / 01.10.03

Blimey. I did a search for "latin" because I want something translated for my friend's tattoo, and this comes up. How appropriate.

Anyway, the boy wants a Latin translation for "boy slut". Or "boy whore" if it has to be. Don't ask me. That's what he wants. It does kind of suit him.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:27 / 01.10.03

I'm calling my mum tomorrow, so I'll try to remember to ask her that as well. (She's dead useful, is my mum.)

00:51 / 01.10.03

Yay!

01:31 / 01.10.03

"Catamite", isn't it? Or is that Greek?

08:47 / 01.10.03

For single words, the Perseus site has searchable Latin and Greek dictionaries (go to Tools, then Dictionary).

Pax Imperii sounds about right to me, Maominstoat. Can't think what a boy whore would be, offhand. Catamite is indeed Greek, though. The trouble with Latin is that I suspect that most of the sexual terms are a little more specific, or specific in different ways, from English: it's easier to translate "cocksucker", "taker of it up the arse", etc, than "man who has sex for money", and I don't know if whatever "man who has sex for money" is in Latin would have the same connotations (of enjoying sex, etc) as "slut"...

Isn't translation fun?

08:49 / 01.10.03

Anna, I think you could have "puerilis sconium" - but this could be seen as more of a "boyish whore" - so that might not quite be right! I think "meretrix" is prostitute as a profession rather than the scortum root which was more to do with just sleeping around.

Make one up - how about Homotrix?

10:10 / 01.10.03

hmm... the Latin mollis has 'slut' connotations to me, at least, but it's been years since I did Latin, thankfully.

17:47 / 01.10.03

"Anna, I think you could have"

Not me! I don't want that as a tattoo! Heh. :]

" "puerilis sconium" - but this could be seen as more of a "boyish whore" - so that might not quite be right!"

That sounds like it might be close. It probably has the verbal effect he's after, if you get what I mean -- it'll roll off the tongue and sound formal and fancy.

"I think "meretrix" is prostitute as a profession rather than the scortum root which was more to do with just sleeping around."

I think he is after the general sleeping around notion, yeah. (and the peurile part of me can't help snerking at "scrotum root")

"Make one up - how about Homotrix?"

I suspect that one won't appeal to him because it might make him look, in more contemporary terms, like a rent boy ("homo trick"), which is probably not the kind of image he was going for (especially as his sleeping around is of the hetero variety, and he's pretty enough and friendly enough to have to tell a lot of gay men he doesn't share their sexual inclinations, as it is)

I'll pass these along to him and see what appeals.

17:53 / 01.10.03

Bill - I think mollis does have some slut connotations but they're secondary to the "passive, effeminate" connotations.

Will keep thinking.

18:21 / 01.10.03

Is "mollis" the same root as "mollify"? Because I doubt that's what he's after :]

11:18 / 02.10.03

I think so. And possibly 'mollusc' also! (So much for my ten sesterces worth!)

16:00 / 07.10.03

Same bent, different line. I have a friend who's trying to find "Death brushed my ear and whispered 'Live- for I am coming" in Latin for his tattoo. I'm thinking it's from the Aeneid but damn if I can find it via Google. Anybody know?

19:25 / 07.10.03

Definitely not the Aeneid, but that's all I can say. sorry! (Try searching the English-language texts on Perseus.)

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:19 / 11.10.03

Pax Imperii sounds off, somehow - probably because "pax" is usually followed by an adjective in this sort of formulation - pax Romana, kind of thing. I suspect that Latin might express "the peace of Empire" as "pax imperatoris" (the emperor's peace), since imperium is a more complex idea than "empire" - but you knew that already.

mollis means at base something like "soft", so yes - it's the root of "mollify".

"scortum" could work, but it's neuter, so if your friend has had "puerilis" tattooed, they will have to have it crossed out in red and replaced by "puerile". Also, I can't think of a usage of "puerilis" to describe an individual offhand - you use it of ages or of opinions.

"Puerulus", meaning "boy-slave" might work, although it doesn't have a necessary sexual component... what did Tiberius call his boy-whores? "Pisculi"? Will look it up and get back...that may be the best short term, albeit rather allusive...

Alternatively, why not go for "boy" as the noun? "puer lascivus", say, or a neologism like "iuvenis merens" (meaning "deserving young man", but punning on the root verb of "meretrix"? I'll think a bit more on this, but would as ever remind people that Latin and English don't think in the same way.

Mass - Deva's right. That's a bad translation of a line from the Copa, and if I were to come across your friend I would probably want him to explain to me whether it was Virgil or pseudo-Virgil, but I imagine that won't happen too often. It's a tag -

Mors, aurem vellens 'vivite' ait, 'venio'

What I don't understand is why all these people want tattoos in a language they don't speak. Won't it lead to very short conversations?

10:36 / 11.10.03

the Copa

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:55 / 11.10.03

It's where music and passion are always in fashion...

Short poem - I think it crops up in the Virgiliana Loeb edition along with the Ciris and the Culex and that lot, which means I have a copy of it somewhere, but God knows where. About a female tavern-keeper inviting a passing traveller in to drink and play dice.

I think the smart money is on it not being V.at all, but only quoted as such by a later writer. You know how it is, but all this textcrit stuff is utterly beyond me. The only remotely famous bit is the above line, which is preceded by "pereat qui crastina curat!"(hang on... no, it's elegicacs, so it must be "crastina curat", musn't it?). I came across that in an article about the nox perpetua, carpeing diem, and so on, I think, but it took a while to shake loose. I confess that I had to google "pereat crastina curat" to get the second line right.

Full text here.

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:00 / 11.10.03

P.S. Crotala! Crotala!

P.P.S "homotrix" hurts my ears like a hundred dogs.

12:13 / 11.10.03

Elegiacs? There are people who are trying to tell me that Vergil wrote in elegiacs?! That is a vile slur on the memory of a decent man.

cecini pastua rura duces, for God's sake! Not dice and tavern-keepers and porridge and whatever the Ciris is about!!

12:29 / 11.10.03

HOMOTRIX! HOMOTRIX! HOMOTRIX! HOMOTRIX! HOMOTRIX! HOMOTRIX!

13:56 / 11.10.03

You'll no doubt ALL be delighted to know that homotrix.com is available if anyone wants a really dodgy domain name for their weblog/e-mail...

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:06 / 12.10.03

It doesn't mean anything- you've changed the wrong bit. Meretor, possibly.

Rage, I know that ever since I declined your invitation to have sex with me you've been a bit antsy and defensive, but please don't shout. You're scaring the shrews.

20:32 / 12.10.03

It's an absolutely brilliant slash pseud, though: there are at least three -trixes in B7 fandom alone (Predatrix, Executrix and Belatrix Carter), so Homotrix would just be lovely as a way of making its own meaninglessness signify in a cute and genderfucky manner. It's a shame I already have a pseud, really.

09:27 / 13.10.03

I just asked you if you wanted to fuck so I could be "provocative and shocking." Thoese were (and sometimes still are) the days. If you thought I was serious you've got a bit of a problem. I mean, I bet you look like a cross between Gandalf and that girl from The Exorcist.

Has anyone registered homotrix.com yet? I sense an interesting "project" taking place. For some reason a raunchy Saved By the Bell vibe is coming to mind.

01:05 / 15.10.03

So what did you decide on, Bio? Sorry if we ruined your thread with our homotrixery...

ONLY NICE THINGS

17:39 / 15.10.03

Ah. The spurned amans attempts to save face by claiming it was not serious. Very Propertian. As I say, I am sorry I could not return your affection, Rage. You're just not my type.

The shrews emerge from the shelter of my knees, snuffling cautiously. Please try to remember that they have huge, sensitive ears and the body mass of a manila envelope. Be kind to the shrews.