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Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Clockwork Orange

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

12:18 / 20.06.02

anyone ever read this?
i just picked it up yesterday and have yet to begin reading it, but i plan on it being my lazy at work reading.
whats the general idea, better than the film? (as is often the case)

Ganesh

12:20 / 20.06.02

Read it a lo-o-ong time ago. Initially daunting but once you're into the flow of Burgess's invented lingo (what's it called, again?) a surprisingly enjoyable read.

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

12:23 / 20.06.02

nadsat.
Yeah, I liked clockwork orange. Been so long since i read the dammned thing tho.
Are you reading the American version (missing final chapter, dictionary at the back), or the UK one (the opposite thereof)?
Both film and book are pretty much classics, but in different ways.

Shortfatdyke

13:28 / 20.06.02

i find the book to be far better than the film, which for me rather missed out on the point of the story - i.e. the rights and wrongs of forcing change on human nature, despite the consequences. the ending of the book is different to the film, too.

Sax

14:27 / 20.06.02

The film is good on different levels than the book, which for me works better because of the denouement, in which Alex is trying to pick up from where he left off but realises that the world has moved on and his old droogs are now all grown-up, with the world that consumed them just a few months ago now being consigned to the dustbin of youth.

If I remember a-right. It is a long while since I read it.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

16:49 / 20.06.02

its the UK version in a US print, no dictionary with last chapter.
the language is taking me aback slightly, getting more used to it, like ulysses but easier i think...

Sax

09:43 / 21.06.02

Oops, sorry for unintentional spoilers there, Elijah. Ignore that post (it might be wrong anyway). They all die at the end. No they don't!

Ganesh

09:48 / 21.06.02

In the US version, Ben Affleck appears and saves the day. And gets the girl.

bio k9

10:17 / 21.06.02

The 20 chapter US version is no longer being made. We now get all 21, just like you folks.

21 being the age of adulthood and all that...

bio k9

10:20 / 21.06.02

Is this where we argue about Burgess' imaginary language?

Anyone else think Malcolm was way too old for the part? But still perfect?

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:24 / 21.06.02

Perfect for a discussion in film, yes. In the book, he features little.

I think it's interesting - the language is a curious construct and it is interesting how you start to rewire your linguistic perceptions to make the book progressively more comprehensible. It suffers probably from the fairly simple fact that the conduct it describes is not particularly shocking anymore - there was the feeling that Burgess was looking out from behind the curtains, crying "And this can happen to the middle classes!"

As therapy novels go, however, it's a sight better than most, and nowhere near as camp as the film.

Spatula Clarke

18:56 / 21.06.02

..it is interesting how you start to rewire your linguistic perceptions to make the book progressively more comprehensible.

To the point where attempting to read something else immediately afterwards stuffs your brain up a bit. Does anyone know if the playing with language was Burgess' main motivation for writing the book?

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:16 / 22.06.02

IIRC, Burgess and wife were mugged by some young toughs, and a Clockwork Orange grew out of his desire to understand it...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:11 / 22.06.02

... though it is definitely one of that list of books which Kubrick never got to the end of... (The Shining, The Short Timers- or Full Metal Jacket, as the 2/3 of it he made a movie of was called).
I think it's a great book. Great for its use of language, its unpleasant yet compulsive subject matter (for the first part), its social commentary (for both the first and second parts), and its completely sympathetic (yet hideously unpleasant) narrator.
The mind/state control theme is a little overstated (as is its swift character development), but then, from the outset it's a book of extremes.
Though I haven't read it since I was a teenager, so I might be talking yarbles.

Tezcatlipoca

13:29 / 22.06.02

It's an excellent little book, largely for the fluidity of Burgess' imaginary language (which I confess to thinking was Polari when first reading it).

Incidently, Elijah, an online version of Nadsat can be found here.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

12:22 / 24.06.02

Nadsat does contain some Polari, though more from the gypsy than the Gay version (IIRC, Polari was derived from gypsy dialects itself), and Russian and a few other things (Charlie= Charlie Chaplin= Chaplain). Presumerably made up by Burgess on the grounds he wasn't hip to the young cats lingo at the time baby.

And I'd just like to point out the film sucks big donkey bollocks as most of Kubrick's work does. So ner.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

11:50 / 27.06.02

finished it last night

i like the fact that the doktors think nadsat is subliminal insurrection by the russians/slaviks.

i think the last chapter made for a sadder story, his pal pete, the only one to fully escape the life with the lady who laughs at how Alex talks. Alex wanting a life like a normal adult, but because of his public past he may never be able to live that life.
much better than the film, since i can re-read a line or two to get it, but who wants to rewind the film 5 seconds and re watch it?

Kit-Cat Club

12:04 / 27.06.02

Oh, crap. This wasn't meant to happen. Hang on...

ill tonic

19:15 / 28.06.02

I've gone through Clockwork Orange a couple of times and it's use of language always makes me think of a childrens bedtime story.

Try it sometime - read the book aloud with that image in mind - you're sitting aside your youngsters bed telling 'em all about your droogs and how starry all that ultraviolence was back in the day ... what fun!

I did this on a lark once and had a blast. Speaking that sparkling lingo aloud in the tone you'd use reading Peter Pan or Alice In Wonderland at bedtime to Little Johnny (Or Julie) nails its message home and makes you see the book through totally different eyes.

Little ones - eyes that sparkle with delight at what fun can be had with some milk and a claw hammer ....

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

13:28 / 29.06.02

that is about the coolest idea i have heard in a while, i may need to try that at open mic night...

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