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How about that Northern Alliance?

01:09 / 19.10.01

Is it wise for CNN to depict these guys as heroic freedom fighters when they have a long history of extreme ultrviolence and rape? Or are we makking the same mistake twice? Apparently they had an officer who specialized in skinning victims for Draculaesque public displays. The majority of their arms are from when they were alliede with the soviets. They were the guys we funded the Mujhadeen to fight against. Aren't they? Just ask Balfour.

Harold Washington died for you

05:05 / 19.10.01

I agree. The Northern Alliance is what is left of the regime that drove the Afghans to embrace the Taliban in the first place. As long as the US is blowing up their villages and killing their children, might as well scrap the whole government and start fresh. WWII style.

The Damned Yankee

13:19 / 19.10.01

It's the old Cold War thinking: "They can kill, rape and pillage their own country and we won't say anything, as long as they're against {insert name of disapproved ideology here}."

This is the same kind of fuzzy thinking that gave rise to popular support for Islamic fundamentalism in the first place. The Shah of Iran was the US's good buddy, standing tall against Communism (and replacing Iran's freely-elected government) while grinding his people down to paste. Small wonder that they got behind the first movement that came along that was strong enough to oust him.

How many times does the Cold War mentality have to bite the West on the ass before someone in government finally says "Y'know, maybe this isn't such a good idea?"

13:54 / 19.10.01

There was a great little article in The Nation this past week about media coverage of the Northern Alliance. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be available online.

One of the things pointed out was the portrayal of the Northern Alliance as freedom fighters for the afghan people. Several papers, including The New York Times, covered the death Massoud, former leader of the alliance by calling his death "the death of a lion." As the nation pointed out, and as I did FINALLY hear on NPR this morning, many Afghans welcomed the Taliban because life under the Northern Alliance was horrible.

I do think with the U.S., by allying themselves with the Northern Alliance, it is the same game with different players. We funded and helped create bin Laden in the "monster" form that he lives today. I find it absolutely mind boggling that the U.S. has not learned from their previous mistakes in this regard.

The mainstream press, at least here in the U.S., has been fairly unanimous in painting the Northern Alliance as "the good guys," rather than the rag-tag band of characters from a variety of background that they are.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

15:06 / 19.10.01

Methinks Rambo III, in which all-American hero Sly Stallone helps the anti-Commie forces has just gained a fantastic new ironic dimension.

The US (and the UK... basically, the West) seems to have adopted the idea that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"...

and that's always a dumb idea.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:35 / 20.10.01

Is the American media still portraying them as the next Heroes of the Hour? For several weeks the British media, if acknowledging them at all, have been treating them as little better than the Taliban. The BBC is still treating them as preferable, but at least they've acknowledged that there are serious questions about letting the NA run the country.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:11 / 20.10.01

Yeah, the media here (UK) have been quick to point out their (many) flaws. Before all this shit kicked off, though, there was an attitude (I guess due to none of us knowing much about the place) that they were the bright hope for twatting the Taliban.
As far as I can tell, nobody wants them in any more than the other fuckers.
There was some talk about arming the NA to do the job for us, fortunately that seems to have been flushed.
'Cos isn't that kind of how the whole thing started?

12:41 / 25.10.01

anyone know anything about the pashtun? they were mentioned on newsnight last week, but i haven't seen anything else. they're not actually associated with the northern alliance, in fact their leader claims to feel left by the wayside by the usa and uk at the moment, because they aren't getting any support.

hmm...maybe this needs a new thread of its own?

gentleman loser

20:52 / 28.10.01

It's because the Cold War mentality has never dissapeared. Sure the Northern Alliance are bad guys, but they're our bad guys! (So are the totalitarian dictatorships of Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, etc. etc.)

A price is going to have to be paid for our political expediency.

[ 28-10-2001: Message edited by: gentleman loser ]

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:14 / 29.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Kooky is Eeevil:
anyone know anything about the pashtun? they were mentioned on newsnight last week, but i haven't seen anything else. they're not actually associated with the northern alliance, in fact their leader claims to feel left by the wayside by the usa and uk at the moment, because they aren't getting any support.

hmm...maybe this needs a new thread of its own?

The Pashtun are a tribal/ethnic group as opposed to a faction. The Taliban leadership are Pashtun, as are many of the people they rule - about 40% of Afghanis overall. There are also many Pshtun tribes along the border with Pakistan, hence the porosity of national boundaries and allegiances and intermittent calls for the creation of "Pashtunistan".

There's a discussion of the disposition of the forces generally described by the blanket term "Taliban" round about page 3 of the "Grant Morrison WTC comments - links?" thread.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:18 / 29.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Levon:
The majority of their arms are from when they were alliede with the soviets. They were the guys we funded the Mujhadeen to fight against. Aren't they? Just ask Balfour.

As I understand it, nowhere near that simple. Parts of the forces now known as the Northern Alliance were supported by Russia in the 80s. Others fought against Russia - Taq was a Mojahaddin leader, as was Massood, IIRC.