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Judgement

 
 
Mr Wolfe
15:18 / 18.06.02
Something I’ve noticed myself doing in the last two years…(Sorry, I too hate it when posts start off in the subjective). I’ve been looking down my nose at people. Feeling like I don’t want to even attempt a conversation with them. They might be too fat, or too ugly, or too downtrodden, or too stupid, or too.... etc etc. If I judge them as ‘worse’ than me, then I don’t really want to know them.

I never used to do this, not when I was ugly and fat myself anyhow. I was an idealist then. Hmmh.....

Can this be helped? Do we all make these kind of judgement calls on some level? Maybe not relating to looks primarily, but in terms of intelligence, or the ‘geekness’ factor of an individual? Or maybe even stupid little character quirks, or age, or (God forbid!) gender!!!

At the same time, I’ve noticed that I’ve been allowing criticism of pieces of art (film, comic, etc) and what other people think of these pieces to affect my own perceptions of a piece of art – I’m finding myself a lot more conscious of other peoples opinions – for example, I saw spider-man the other day – thought it was quite bad – but I’ve been telling people who are off to see it themselves that it was alright because A) I think that they don’t have as much of a keen knowledge of films as me and won’t be able to pick it apart so much, B) because I want to people to like comics more, and C) because if they see it and like it, that will set up a contrast between me and them, even though this particular train of thought probably won’t even enter into their heads. It’s difficult knowing how to fit in and stay unique at the same time. It’s also tiring.

In essence, I’m asking – Does the way you look and think affect the way you look at other people and where does the boundary for cohabitation lie? And how can I seriously change my perceptions so I stop judging people so much based on things they probably can't help?
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
15:27 / 18.06.02
Well, Andrew, when you asked largely the same question last year, I think the general response was "you haven't even had a tiny bit of sex, have you? Like a sexlet?"

Do you feel that the world has changed appreciably since?
 
 
Bear
15:38 / 18.06.02
I thought I was great until I met Phil, can I sign up to your program Phil, I need more self love.
 
 
Trijhaos
15:57 / 18.06.02
"Oh I can't talk to you because you're fat"
"I can't be seen with you because you're stupid"
"Oh man! You're both ugly and stupid. Please stay away!"

What a sad life you must lead.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:03 / 18.06.02
I never used to do this, not when I was ugly and fat myself anyhow...

You sound pretty fucking ugly right now.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
16:06 / 18.06.02
I often go to reviews to see if it is something I woudl like. My time is so short that I really can't waste an evening at a bad movie or reading a crappy book.

Do I judge people? My mother says I only have one prejudice, and that is that I can't stand stupid people for any reason. I've been working on that, but in my black little heart of hearts, Morons piss me off.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
16:19 / 18.06.02
"I recognize that I have flaws and I would like to try to overcome them. Can you help me?"

"Fucking right, you've got flaws. What the fuck is your problem, fuckface? You flawed fucking idiot."

"No, no...I don't think you understand. See, I know that I have flaws. I'm admitting to that. I'm more judgemental than I would like to be. I would like to try to see if there is something I could do to fix this. Do you have any advice?"

"Yeah, you judgemental fuckwad. Why not do us all a favor and take a flying leap off a fucking bridge and die already. You make me want to fucking puke."

Am I the only one seeing something really sad and overtly ironic taking place in this thread?
 
 
SMS
16:27 / 18.06.02
no.
 
 
bio k9
16:47 / 18.06.02
I find it sad you have to defend your other suits.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
17:03 / 18.06.02
Okay. Just fucking stop before you even get started, K9. I have no other suits on the board. I don't even post under a pseudonym anymore, for Christ's sake. Whatever. Why am I even defending myself? Accept it or don't.

The only reason I posted what I did was to get people to think about what they were doing, namely judging someone else for being judgemental. It must have only seemed obvious to me that that made no sense whatsoever.
 
 
Mr Wolfe
18:59 / 18.06.02
Exactly. I meant no offence, but the immediate responses did make me think about what I said originally. I don't want to be judgemental. I used to think that it would be wrong to judge others on any level. Now, being that type of person, I'm having trouble criticising the judgementalists and the bigots so much.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
20:35 / 18.06.02
I never used to do this, not when I was ugly and fat myself anyhow...

But now you've transcended into intellectual beauty!?

I don't think you - or for that matter, anyone - can be too critical of others. People are infinitely complex, which to my mind makes them interesting, and I don't think any of us can really make judgements - less so before getting to know the person we're judging.
 
 
Mr Wolfe
20:44 / 18.06.02
What if they're wearing a wig and you can see the sticky tape?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
02:47 / 19.06.02
It must have only seemed obvious to me that that made no sense whatsoever.

Nah, I thought so too, but people tell me things about what I see and what's not there, so I stay quiet.
 
 
SMS
04:09 / 19.06.02
I find it sad you have to defend your other suits.
Really. Deric and I aren't the same person. I did once have another suit, and a couple of times I used it to clarify something, and once to try to point out a hole in my own argument. But I burned it after the suit hijackings.


To the original point of the thread: How can Phil help improve himself. Specifically, he wants to work on being less judgmental, and is asking our advice.

The following comes from my own experience, and is advice I would give myself, but I don't know how it will work for others:

The first step is not simply recognizing that you are judgmental. In fact, I think that it is possible to circumvent this step. The important thing is actually not wanting to be judgmental. I think one of the reasons people have such a terrible time giving up vices is that they don't really want to do it. They've identified themselves as "the one who parties hard," or "the really good liar," or something. Be humble.

When you see someone who isn't attractive, and you think to yourself "yikes!" Stop that train of thought. The initial reaction may come, but you can control whether or not you follow it through. I think you'll find that these initial reactions will come less often when you devote less energy to them. This won't mean that you aren't aware of another person's intelligence, attractiveness and so on. It won't even mean that you won't be judging them anymore. It just means you'll do it less often.

Don't vocalize these judgments. That is don't say to your pals, "Sally? The really ugly one?" And especially when you're angry with Sally, don't call Sally "that stupid, fat, ugly bitch." If you are angry, be angry about a specific thing. If she, say, intentionally scratched your car with her keys, be mad about that action. Bringing her weight, appearance, and intelligence into it makes your anger less rational.

Don't work on this aspect of your life by itself. If you experience the same stimuli every day, and do everything else the same way, then you can certainly expect this one thing to be very difficult to change. You may try fasting as a way of penance for your increased judgmentalism. Meditate. Pray. I really don't think this kind of thing is silly. It's been used by religions because it has a psychological impact. That's what you want.

Keep in mind that judging other people is not necessary in order to maintain your own sense of ethics/morals/secondmorals. When you want to ask whether something is right or wrong, ask this question instead: "If I were advising a friend in this situation, what would I say?"

Also note little misunderstandings. They happen all the time. Example:
I never used to do this, not when I was ugly and fat myself anyhow...
But now you've transcended into intellectual beauty!?

I won't pretend to understand what you (Phil) meant when you wrote this, but I read it as "not when I thought of myself of or was generally perceived to be fat and ugly." I made some guesses about what had happened. I figured that you used to be overweight, and are now not. Perhaps, I thought, you used to have trouble getting dates, and now do not. And so on... So I filled in a lot of extra information you didn't provide. Even though I was aware that you never said these things, it colored my perception of your statement. Others on the board had different images, I'm sure. And none of it is exactly what you meant when you said it. This can get frustrating sometimes, and it may be tempting to say, "no, you moron. I meant this!!!" Try not to say it, anyway. No matter how hard you try, you will always have miscommunication.
 
 
Ganesh
12:35 / 19.06.02
Hmm, a week really isn't a long time in Trollville, is it?

*presses Ignore button again*
 
 
SMS
14:42 / 19.06.02
Will someone please explain to me what's going on? Why is there all this talk about trolling?
 
 
Mr Wolfe
14:52 / 19.06.02
Don't worry about it - I'm not.

Thanks for the advice btw.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:10 / 19.06.02
SMatthew - put very simply, Phil Knows! is yet another suit of Andrew Callow, also known as the Knodge, Knodger, the Knowledge, the Haus of Vengeance, Horus Lord of Force and Fire, and so on.

He has yet to embark on one of his trademark rants about negroes and their weird dances, but has instead decided to concentrate on his view of women and political correctness.

For some reason, Tom has decided to stay his hand from the by-now-traditional Knodgecution, perhaps hoping to demonstrate by positive enforcement the advantages of not defecating in your hand and throwing it at people. This, it goes without saying, will not work; at some point Knodger will start PMing people, then start shouting "HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I HAD YOU FOOLED!!!!" to a largely unsurprised board, then get kicked off. Again.

This topic is particularly desperate, as it retreads almost verbatim the old "Are you ugly?" topic, but with a new, agape-dripping perspective. The Knodgetic Christ, if you will.

The "I find it sad you have to defend your other suits" refers not to you, I imagine, but to Deric Holloway, whose championing of the Knodger (from, as it turned out, a position of almost total innocent of his work) led to some believing he was just another apologist Knowledge duplicate suit, of the kind that would turn up the day after each Knodgepulsion and say, "I haven't been around for a few months, and I don't knwo what's going on, but who is this Knowledge, and why is he being PERSECUTED by you NAZIS when HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH?", often repeating verbatim the philosophies on freedom of speech expounded by Knodger a little further up the page. This is not as far as I care to investigate the case, but Deric, who subsequently disavowed the defence of the Knodger after some charming little sally involving - my memory fails me - speaking of how much he (Knodger) would like to sexually assault one of the Barbeloids(?), appears to be keen on going back to the well.

And that, as they say, is the 411.

Further discussion of the Knodge to be done in the relevant thread in the Policy, please.
 
 
Mr Wolfe
15:33 / 19.06.02
Haus = wanker
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:56 / 19.06.02
The cut and thrust of debate. The incisive observation, the wry comment, the sly aside. Its a game of chess where two great minds attempt to match wits intent on the intellectual demolition of their opponent.

But I think that this time even Haus has met his match.
 
 
bitchiekittie
15:58 / 19.06.02
its the smilie that did it
 
 
Grey Area
16:25 / 19.06.02
The smilie was indeed das Tuepfelchen auf dem "i"...

This is ever so entertaining though. Like an online edition of The Bold And The Beautiful featuring Jeremy Paxman.
 
 
Ierne
16:51 / 19.06.02
If he sends another package to someone's

home address,

you folks may not find him so "entertaining".
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
16:53 / 19.06.02
*puts on Willow suit*

Bored now.
 
 
Mr Wolfe
17:11 / 19.06.02
Yeah you people. Stop having fun God-damnit!
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:15 / 19.06.02
Let's sort this out once and for all. Knodge, I've posted about a get-together in London tomorrow. We know you're a student so you have no pressing social engagements to speak of.
Come to it. I give you my word you will not get beaten up. Probably.

We will get you drunk, for the first time in your life.
We will point you in the direction of Soho so that you might be able to have some sex for the first time in your life.
We will dissect you many character flaws and then half-drown you to see if that Tom O'Bedlam/Jack Frost shit really works.

Come on, it'll be fun!
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
17:23 / 19.06.02
Sigh...
 
 
bitchiekittie
17:35 / 19.06.02
actually I find lurid entertaining. he can send me mail any time!
 
 
Mr Wolfe
22:38 / 19.06.02
Thanks for the invite but I must sadly decline.
 
  
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