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Underground > Radio & Music >

guitar buying advice

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14:31 / 17.06.02

OK, after a lifetime of, well, not doing so, at all, I've decided it's time to stop being such a fanboy and start making my own noise.

Thus, I'm going to take the money I'd put aside to go to Reading this year, and instead buy a guitar.

So.. any advise for a clueless, tone deaf loser looking to make no chord no wave skronk to no discernable purpose?

What kinda thing should I go for? Where should I get it?

I'm left-handed, but then Hendrix was too, so I guess it can't be that much of a crippling disability..

Matthew Fluxington

14:41 / 17.06.02

Well, if you want to do fucked up noise rock, you could do no better than to emulate the masters - check out the Sonic Youth gearography.

gozer the destructor

14:44 / 17.06.02

If you want to create musical terrorism, get the cheapest everything and turn up loud, it s9ounds cool in front of enough people if you jumpa round and don't care. If you want to impress guitarplayers but an acoustic first and strengthen(sp?) your wrists and fingers...that is if your wrists need strenghthening. Quite chuffed with that word.

Matthew Fluxington

14:55 / 17.06.02

Wow. I'm going through that gearography right now, and it's fucking amazing.

Rizla, I should point out that Kurt Cobain was also a left handed guitar player. Stephen Malkmus is really a lefty, but he plays with his right hand because he's taught himself to be ambidextrous.

Were there not an ocean between us, I'd say "hey, Rizla, want to jam sometime?".

gozer the destructor

15:12 / 17.06.02

Should we start a thread for guitarists who do nothing constructive a nd want to jam? God knows i'd be up for it. Brit side of the pond that is...?

15:25 / 17.06.02

That "gearography" is insane .. the guy who wrote it really needs to get out more.. though the complete run down of all the stickers on SY's guitar's is kind of funny..

The Fender Jazzmaster looks the coolest - anyone care to recommend a cheap rip-off of it? And what kind of (affordable) amp makes the most sonic mess?

15:57 / 17.06.02

Best advice: go to a pawn shop, plug it in an amp, if it makes noise without crackle or buzz, buy it.
Or just check music classifieds, scratch-n-dent sales at music stores, and network with friends.
Makes don't matter all that much, especially when you're just starting.

Dick Dale is a left-handed guitarist also. If I remember right, unlike Hendrix et al, he just flops a regular right handed guitar over, so the lowest (pitch) string is closest to the ground when he plays. Which is weird to watch.

So basically, if it makes noise, get it. You're gonna put new strings on it anyway. Amps make a much bigger difference for sound than guitars. And even then, I wouldn't worry about it. You're just starting, buy stuff used.

Or else get this:

from here

And get a delay pedal. They're way fun.

17:16 / 17.06.02

Excellent decision, Riz. I will jam with you: you have no choice.

Buy something that stays in tune and that you don't mind trashing. Buy a stupidly loud amp - doesn't matter if it sounds good, it just has to be loud. Get some twisted effects: whatever you can lay your hands on that looks interesting.

Matthew Fluxington

17:26 / 17.06.02

Why must you torture me? I'd love to play and write with Expressionless and Rizla, but yet I'm trapped over here in New York. An ocean is all that stands between creating a Barbelith supergroup. Oh, woe...

The Return Of Rothkoid

17:57 / 17.06.02

Hey, I'm gonna be on the end of that problem soon, too.

My advice, Riz, would be to get something cheap-ass and playable, as Grant suggests. Learning a geetar -especially electric- is the sort of thing that ensures that when the skill level's low, anything sounds good: the better you get, the more you'll notice oddities in sound, or think something sounds reedy/whatever.

But to follow up what everyone else said, hunt around and go cheap. If you want new, Squier guitars (ie: Fender copies, made by Fender in Korea, I think) and Ibanez guitars are pretty much indestructable for all your learnin' needs. Go for a telecaster copy, young man.

Actually, the Ibanez Talman is kinda Jazzmasterish, with lipstick pickups. THere's a couple of models, and I don't think they make 'em any more, but I believe they're kinda cheap. How much were you thinking? You can pick up things like Danelectros pretty cheaply now, y'know...

As regards the amp: get something loud and cheap. Choosing the "right" amp's a big question on its own, and if you're just going to be effecting-the-fuck out of things, then it won't make much difference, anyway.

I found Harmony Central's User Reviews part good, too, if you can get past the REALLY ENTHUSIASTIC KORN FANZ0RS!!!!!!!

Ahem.

Matthew Fluxington

18:01 / 17.06.02

I highly recommend Danelectro for inexpensive high-quality effects pedals. I especially love my 'slap echo' and 'phaser' pedals, though it should be noted that I mostly use them for keyboard and vocal effects, not guitar... I have had some positive experience playing guitars through my tremolo pedal for effects.

18:25 / 17.06.02

I think you would be much better buying the same gear that I did in my old band, The Smashing Pumpkins. You can find a good guide to what we used here. I wouldn't recommend trying to copy my new Zwan sound. Our chops are far beyond what a beginner would be able to play, so don't torture yourself, alright?

18:44 / 17.06.02

Billy:

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

19:05 / 17.06.02

I highly recommend Danelectro for inexpensive high-quality effects pedals.

Myself as well. In fact, I had a guitar teacher who swore by all things Danelectro (mainly because everything is so cheap), but maybe he just had a thing for art deco. His little Danelectro amp had an impressive sound, though.

As grant said, brands don't matter much when you're just starting. Just find a sound that you like and can afford.

Guitar advice:

Play as much as possible with other guitar players, preferably much more skilled guitar players.

Take care of your instrument. There are many musically inclined people who would love to have a guitar and can't afford it, and it always pisses me off when I see someone treat their instrument with anything resembling disrespect.

Explore different sounds. Try new pickups.

Learn a lot of the wacky guitar lingo. It's a lot of fun.

Don't let classical violinists look down on you. You play a legitimate stringed instrument.

Once you start getting decent, hunt around until you find a bar or something that has a blues/rock jam some night of the week. They're fun, and you can get some experience playing in public. And the audience is pretty forgiving (usually really drunk).

And finally, despite what you may hear, it's never a bad thing to learn to read music. In fact, it's a very good thing. And besides, theory is so much easier to learn on a guitar than a lot of instruments.

mmmm....blues jams. I miss 'em. Were I within eight hundred miles of any guitar player on this board, I'd love to jam with you.

19:48 / 17.06.02

I honestly have no idea why you would think I would like those two pictures, Jack. That second picture with horse is pretty disgusting, actually.

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

20:10 / 17.06.02

What I did, being also a member of the sinister noise brethren, was to just buy a second hand, right handed imitation strat, strung left-handed. It cost me about 70 quid, but that was back in about 95, so you might have to adjust for inflation. If you buy from a second-hand store, you'll almost definitely be able to find an imitation strat ( and probably fuck all else). The only real problems with playing an upside down right handed guitar is that a) it makes reaching the high frets a bit harder if you want to do fast and noodly solos, and that the whammy bar is in a *slightly* awkward position.
If you're into noise, as you evidently are, get something with a whammy bar/ tremolo arm. It's a very useful noise-making tool.
And to get you started noise-wise, you might appreciate
this.

21:08 / 17.06.02

some mod needs to edit something in that last post - formatting is wonky.

Danelectro makes the amps? Hmm. I like their pedals, lookwise (don't own any though).

The whammy bar thing can go both ways - for a beginner, when you're just struggling to tune the damn thing, I'd recommend not worrying about one. They're really good at knocking a guitar just a little out of tune every time you use it, which can be really frustrating.
I've got a Squier Telecaster, and when I want that effect, I either employ a screwdriver under the strings or else simply bend the neck while playing.

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

21:49 / 17.06.02

Yeah, sorry about the link above being screwed...
That's a good point about the whole making-tuning-difficult thing. When I started out, the guitar I bought didn't have the tremolo arm with it, and while I was learning to play I had a small block of wood wedged behind it (underneath the woss-name plate on the back, to hold the whole tremolo unit in place). I'd personally still say get one, especially given your noise-based intentions, though it's your call.

21:58 / 17.06.02

Don't forget the cheap-ass standby that is the Yamaha Pacifica 112. It don't look cool, but it's well built, flexible in terms of tone (two single coils and a bridge humbucker) and well established. Thomman will mail one to you for £140, though the price over here is under £200 basically. Very impressed with a friend's. It's not funky looking, but it works.

That said, I also loved the Dano U3 I tried. Wonderful neck, lots of jangle. Though not so RAWk.

22:04 / 17.06.02

rizla, the best thing to do is go second hand at first so you haven't spent a bunch of money in case you might not dig it. that made no sense but i'm tired so i'll continue. my friend is a left handed guitar player and he rocks, says it costs no more money to get a left handed guitar. men in guitar shops can be pesky. go at yr own pace. my favourite guitars are made by daisy rock. the black heartbreaker i ordered is at my boys house in nj! but i shall get it soon....
http://www.daisyrock.com
deliousious. excellente.
have fun playing and just turn that distortion up and rock out. or should i say rock on?

02:58 / 18.06.02

"men in guitar shops can be pesky."

No kidding! As in, if you show any HINT of being a beginner, they'll try to rip you bigtime. If possible, take along someone familiar with the whole scene for advice. If that ain't happenin', you might try the pawnshops. They probably won't bother you.

Go for ease of play. Low action. Many a beginner has become discouraged right away because they got a guitar that was a strain to play. Drove me away at first, until I realized that I had a shitty guitar. I got a good one second-hand, and found out it was much easier than I ever dreamed!

Of course, if you REALLY wanna be cool, you'll leave the guitar alone and let your fingers walk upon the fat ass strings of the bass, instead...

11:18 / 18.06.02

Thanks everyone for the myriad advise.. I'll go secondhand I guess..

Those Powerpuff Girls / Mojo-Jojo guitars are without question the coolest objects I've ever seen! A little out of my price range admittedly, but [Wayne] it shall be mine, oh yes, it shall be mine. [/Wayne].

It's just occured to me even simply playing a right-handed guitar the wrong way round (and I have little desire to play properly, so I don't see why I shouldn't) is, well, a little impossible, considering how the strap is connected and everything .. hmm..

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

11:46 / 18.06.02

Re straps: It is possible to play with the strap hanging from underneath the neck of the guitar- at worst, all it does is look a tiny bit ungainly and make a couple more of the high frets hard to reach. But it's also very easy to just unscrew the strap-holder and screw it back in on the other side. It does leave a small hole where the strap-knob used to be, but I'm pretty sure that could be filled in or covered over if you so desire, although I haven't done so...

11:58 / 18.06.02

Oh, well that's ok then I guess.

Next order of business: what specifications should I look for in an amp?

The Return Of Rothkoid

11:58 / 18.06.02

It's worth remembering that some straps attach behind the neck, not on the side of the body - as it does on my ES335 copy - so the swapping thing don't matter...

13:58 / 18.06.02

For a chaep acoustic 6-string, get a Yamaha. They are all but indestructible. Some models fall into what's now called 'parlor guitar,' meaning a real small body, which I like.
For a cheap nylon string, get a Fender. Nice sound, nicer price. If it lasts one season, it's paid for itself (but I've had mine for six years).
For a moderately priced electric, I've always been a big Gibson SG booster. LOTS of fun. And the shape- well, despite an unfortunate association with Jerry Garcia, the shape is sublime.
If you're rich or have the best girlfriend in the world, a Taylor. YEAH.

20:28 / 18.06.02

...what specifications should I look for in an amp?

I'm with Billy Gibbons on this one: look for an amp where all the knobs are in a single row, so that you can turn everything up to 10 at once with a single slashing motion of the hand.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

01:47 / 19.06.02

I don't think anyone's mentioned this...

Keep in mind that flipping a right-handed guitar like a Strat over to left, the bridge pickup will be reversed, and it does have an effect on the sound. Which some people like, I guess.

Amps:

I use a 50's Ampeg remake, which has great tone but no overdrive. That means only natural distortion created by an amp being played louder than is healthy, and it's really not that great, either. But it does come with an Accordian input jack, and that's sweet. And I bought a pedal for the overdrive, so now I get all kinds of neat sounds. On the other hand, I've got friends who don't need pedals so much as channel selectors because they get all the sound they need out of the amp. So it's really about finding or just putting together the sound you like. That's about all I can tell you, except for to keep it simple in the begining, and to look up friends who started to play but eventually gave up, because they'll sell a decent amp for nothing.

04:25 / 19.06.02

I've been playing guitar for 13 years. I've owned 13 different guitars.

The only guitar you will ever need is a Fender Stratocaster. Preferably American made. (American Standard.) I prefer the ones with the laquered necks. Pre-1990 I think. (Now they use this satin finish that just feels too weak.) Its the most versitle and dependable instrument ever made. Mine is an 89'. Only family comes before it.

Can't aford that, go with a Japanese or Mexican Stratocaster. Can't afford that, go with the Squire. My first guitar was a Japanese Strat. I sill play it all the time.

You can get a lefty but I'd just get a righty and play it lefty. They sound great and look cool that way.

And yes, Yamaha does make great inexpensive acoustic guitars.

As far as amps go, Crate and Peavey make nice dependable solid state amps you can afford. I suggest at least 60 watts.

I've got a huge monster rig that is louder than God but all you really need is something with a 12 inch speaker and about 60 watts so that you will be as loud as most drummers you may play with.

04:34 / 19.06.02

Oh, and Hendrix played right handed guitars strung backwards. He had a few lefty guitars that people bought for him but he did not like the sound as well.

08:59 / 19.06.02

Squire Jazz's are around £200 new.

That's about the extent of any knowledge I may at all have ever had ever.

I haven't picked up my acoustic for fucking ages becuase I'm too disheartened. I wanna get an electric (so thanks for the thread) and make fun noise and get confidence, but for real, I'm just too blowey.

sigh

So what fun things are there to make and do to learn to play gonzo strupid no wave noise? Teach me!

09:01 / 19.06.02

Oh! And a good tuner that will tell me alternetness?! Mine only does standard, and do I fucking want to sit and turn it off a keyboard? No I fucking don't.

13:35 / 19.06.02

No Wave Noise essential: The Rat.

15:02 / 19.06.02

yo, steve malkmus had a cool one called big cheese that was orange and looked like a slab of red leicester.

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

17:09 / 19.06.02

I, Pin:
Oh! And a good tuner that will tell me alternetness?! Mine only does standard, and do I fucking want to sit and turn it off a keyboard? No I fucking don't.

Uh, the Korg ca-10 is the one I use and can tune to pretty much any note, and only cost, 20 odd quid (albeit 3 or 4 yrs ago). It's supposed to be shit, but I don't have a problem with it. But you could always just use relative tuning (ie to drop the lower E to d tune it down so the 7th fret is on A. Possibly a pain in the ass to work out if you're doing some godawful weird-ass sonic youth stuff but, hey...?!)
Oh, and for noise stuff, see the, now fixed, link in my first post in this thread. It's the best article/essay on the subject I've come across online, and something I look for relatively regularly....
I don't think it mentions the drumstick-behind-the-strings-and-whack-said-stick-with-another-drumstick method used by, amongst others, urusei yatsura on siamese.

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