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Letting God Back In

 
 
Cherry Bomb
14:51 / 17.10.01
Wondering what y'all are thinking about the upsurge in prayer in lieu of the terrorist attacks. Do you think it's positive? Uplifting? Yet another worrying infringement on civil liberties? Time Magazine has an interesting article called Letting God Back In about the return to prayer and schools - "and no one's complaining yet."

quote:The morning's guest speaker, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, took the stage at the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Alexandria, Va. "Everyone stand up, hold hands with your neighbor and repeat after me," he instructed. Before long, the gymnasium broke into a rousing call-and-response chant. It could have been a school pep rally, except that many of the students and teachers had their heads bowed, and they were calling out prayers for each other and peace on earth. "Afterward we asked our teachers, 'Is he actually allowed to do that?'" recalls senior Ankur Shah, 16, a Hindu who as a young child moved to America from India. "Can he pray in a public school?"

Before Sept. 11, the answer was a crisp and concise no. Today it's open for debate. Seeking to reassure their students by any means necessary, schools across the country are turning more openly to God. Attendance surged at this year's annual See You at the Pole celebration, where Christian teens congregate at their school flagpoles for a sunrise prayer session. Such gatherings, which transpire outside of school hours, are constitutionally sound. But the same spirit is seeping into the school day. Some teachers are broadcasting morning blessings over the p.a. system or praying with distraught students. "My students and employees have been praying openly, and now it isn't questioned," says Dot Dodge, principal of Springstead High School in Spring Hill, Fla. "It feels like permission has been granted."

Some lawmakers feel emboldened as well. Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee has proclaimed October "Student Religious Liberty Month" and is sending a letter urging school districts to allow students to pray; the letter also includes information about the Supreme Court's recent thinking on religion in the classroom. Meanwhile, South Carolina legislators are pushing to revive what looks like full-blown school-sponsored prayer. Republican House members gathered last week to "pre-introduce" a bill mandating a "moment of silent prayer," language that has been struck down by courts. "Tens of millions of Americans broke the law on Sept. 11 and in the days that followed--they prayed in public places. Kids prayed in schools," enthused the home page of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, which sponsors thousands of student prayer clubs. "As we return to some sense of normalcy, let's recognize our dependence on God."


Thoughts?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
14:54 / 17.10.01
well shit, since we're in the middle of a crusade and a holy war, we'd better be praying, right?
 
 
bitchiekittie
14:58 / 17.10.01
I think people need something to hold onto. if that thing is faith, let them have it
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:29 / 17.10.01
It's hardly surprising really, people often turn religious after experiencing some intense neural shock of some kind, and 11/9 certainly qualifies as that.
 
 
Ierne
15:43 / 17.10.01
Time magazine is pretty notorious for its christian bias. Quite often they'll have cover stories on Jesus or Adam & Eve or Satan or some such nonsense.

As for civil liberties: Try and get a school assembly in this country to pray to Allah, let alone Shiva, Odin, Hermes, Brigid, Ishtar... let's see if they let Santeros get up and sacrifice to the orishas...

...Don't think so.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:49 / 17.10.01
Bloody Hell....one thing I have always, always repected America for was the separation of Church and State in education - even if they did effectively end up praying to their flag instead (odd people). This is just depressing.

[ 17-10-2001: Message edited by: The Lower Haus ]
 
 
Ethan Hawke
15:51 / 17.10.01
Speaking of flags, who wants to bet that the anti-Flag Burning amendment to the Constitution comes up again very, very soon?
 
 
Quimper
01:11 / 18.10.01
quote:Originally posted by The Lower Haus:
Bloody Hell....one thing I have always, always repected America for was the separation of Church and State in education - even if they did effectively end up praying to their flag instead (odd people). This is just depressing.

[ 17-10-2001: Message edited by: The Lower Haus ]


Well, yeah, but we haven't always had true separation of church and state. We SHOULD, this is true. But I honestly don't have any problem with a little prayer on Sept 11. So long as it wasn't obligatory. You can do this and still show respect for people of various religions. Sept 11, the day, was an exception. A friend of mine, who is a minister, went to some schools on that day and informed that the church would be open that evening for anyone who wanted to come.

But trying to use that event as an excuse to force a religion on children every day is absurd.

Another absurd thing:

quote: Tens of millions of Americans broke the law on Sept. 11 and in the days that followed--they prayed in public places. Kids prayed in schools

It sounds like prayer is forbidden in public places.


Incidentally, while getting a school to come together to pray to Allah (as distinct from God) is unlikely, I do remember a number of speakers that came to my school from different cultures and religions. One of the guest speakers in a social studies class was an old hippie who didn't care much for the way the government is run.

The anti-flag burning amendment comes up all the time. No big deal. If it ever passes, I'm sure I won't be the only one burning the flag on the front porch the next morning (or soon. I might need to buy a new flag. The one I use right now has some sentimental value to it, so...)

It's pretty obvious how you protest something like this, and seeing people arrested for burning a flag isn't going to settle well with anybody in America, especially the patriotic people.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
11:53 / 18.10.01
The anti-flag burning amendment has all ready been brought up by (woa-ho! what a surprise!) Republican lawmakers. I'll see if I can find a link to some news about it.

As for separation of church and state, believe me, Haus, I hear you. And how 'bout this for disturbing: since the Sept. 11 attacks I've counted several churches that have put flags either outside or our prominently displaying them somewhere. Here in Chicago, there's a church (kind of a freak-o church but nonetheless) called the "I Am Temple" where they have in one display window the bible and a picture of Jesus, and in the other a flag and a copy of the u.s. constitution.

I find that HIGHLY disturbing, myself. I mean, I went to a Catholic grade school and even there I had it drummed into my head again and again that one of the nice things about living in the States was the freedom to worship or not worship whatever you wanted.

But then, Bush said a prayer in the middle of his inauguration speech, and of course he has unveiled his faith-based inititative plan, so we were all ready headed in this direction before September 11.
 
 
bitchiekittie
12:17 / 18.10.01
bit off topic, but did you know that the "proper handling" of the american flag includes destroying it once its become worn and tattered, preferably by burning (discreetly, of course, to prevent your fine upstanding neighbors from thinking its a willful act of desecration). I dont remember where I read that, but it might have been here so forgive me if Im repeating something thats already common knowledge.
 
 
sleazenation
13:20 / 18.10.01
heh- i like the idea of an america choking to death on decaying flags that it cannot destroy because its against its constitution...
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
14:35 / 18.10.01
An anti-flag burning law would be harmful to the flag-manufacturing industry. To help keep the economy going, especially in this vital sector GWB should not only not ban flag-burning, but also strive to do stupid and evil things as often as possible so, not only do flags get burnt, but bought again and re-burnt, time and time again.
 
 
The Damned Yankee
14:49 / 18.10.01
Personally, I'd like to hold this "God" person accountable for the crazy shit he's encouraging in both the Christian and Islamic fundies.

Pray to him? I'd sue his ass!
 
 
Frances Farmer
14:59 / 18.10.01
Perhaps, as The Onion suggests, this is all fallout from God having clarified his "Don't Kill" rule.



--

On a serious note; Prayer is not illegal in public places. That's sensationalistic and irresponsible of them to make it sound as if that's the case.

It's illegal for prayer ever to be a mandate. A citizen is welcome to pray while he's being arrested. The cop is not welcome to pray while he's doing the arresting.

The people (hypothetically) have the right to practice religion wherever it is they see fit -- but it can never, ever, come from government.

Ever.

But, that appears to be changing. Slowly but surely.

The last time there was a (cough) empire like this, there were (cough crusades.

I'm going to vomit.
 
  
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