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Quick Tarot Question

Boy in a Suitcase

00:36 / 11.06.02

I've noticed that many of the cards seem to have attributions to the Moon–for instance, the Empress stands on the moon and the High Priestess is attributed to the astrological symbol of the moon. Why is this when there is a seperate trump for the Moon itself, wouldn't only The Moon correspond to the moon? My question is, what does the moon represent in this context–is it used as a general symbol of femininity, or is it something else? Do all the trumps have either a solar or lunar attribution?
Can anybody help?
TIA

01:36 / 11.06.02

Which Tarot deck are you using?

06:53 / 11.06.02

Well, there are, what, 6 astrological planets and 12 signs so with 23 Trumps and a total of 76 cards there will be some overlap on the planets and signs.

Furthermore, you have to take into account the weird table of correspondences used by many magicians. Since so many symbols stand for other things, people can draw all sorts of weird webs of relationships. This can get confusing. While the moon (as a symbol, not a card) maybe more associated with femininity than the sun, it does not mean that everything to which the moon is applied is necessarily feminine.

In general, the Moon tarot card means occulted meanings or teachings, enigmas, darkness, and/or madness depending on context and dignity. The Moon is a night symbol and, unlike the Star, it is not a constant, waxing and waning and moving about. While you may be able to guide yourself by it, it is not dependable as the Star.

There are other cards representing general femininity, like the Pages, Queens, Empress and High Priest. Those are clearly female.

As for the solar vs. lunar attributions, all the Major Arcana have astrological planetary attribution. These planets, if I recall correctly, are the Sun, Mercury, Venus, the Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Frankly, I don't buy much of astrology and I don't care about these correspondences.

Beware the Moon, it is a harsh mistress.

-Rev. Jesse

18:03 / 11.06.02

Yeah, there are different faces of the moon, different powers drawn from the moon (refined, distilled moonshine), and then there's the moon itself.

00:13 / 12.06.02

Hey yea ole antlerhead!

I don't want to sound like some sort of jerk, but isn't that the way the tarot is supposed to work? One into the next, forth and back: it bleeds together like a dinner before a snack. Over and under the correspondences build until the practitioner realizes an ego killed. I know you might like answers that are not riddles, but my heart bleeds plays on a host of 1000 fiddles!

But never mind that, your questions are reasonable, and the pursuit you're after will become more feasible. Light and dark, the sun and the moon--don't let these dualities lead you to gloom. What is the moon but a reflection of the Sun and life without the solar power would be nothing other than done.

I don't really know why I rhymed this response, but take it with a grain of sand if you wants!

Boy in a Suitcase

04:29 / 12.06.02

thanks all, that did help!
Slowly learning all the tarot correspondences, one by one, with mostly the help of 777 and Google, the Librarian of Alexandria.
Time to get some order in my chaos, and I know I can always count on you guys to clear up problems!

04:41 / 13.06.02

...6 astrological planets and 12 signs so with 23 Trumps and a total of 76 cards there will be some overlap on the planets and signs.

<: Are you incorporating The Grail (somebody please post the link to the card, i don't know how) into your 23 trump Rev.?:>

End transmission.

04:35 / 14.06.02

Well I could tell you that I believe firmly in the circling Tarot which appears in Shea and Wilson's Illumanitus! The Shea-Wilson interpretation holds that each of the 22 trump is a life stage that a soul must endure and master. Once all 22 lifestages have been mastered, the soul returns to its origin, as the hermit comes to town from the mountain to teach. The Zen ox-herding pictures, in which the herdsman returns having mastered his goal, closely parallel this.

Of course, many other divination techniques have a circular aspect to them. From the I Ching, to casting seeds, to spinning an egg yolk to see the future, to the dreidel, a spinning fortune teller, many other scrying techniques have a way of returning upon themselves.

This is the same with the Tarot, where in we find the swirling down of the soul from the top World to the status of a Fool, only to return back to sit atop the Universe.

Or, I could tell you that I made a mistake, that there are only 22 Tarot and that I can only plead that it was but an honest mistake. Everyone knows that there are only 22 Major Arcana, just like everyone looks both ways before crossing the street and that the CIA doesn’t spy on American citizens.

Or, I could tell you that I made a mistake, that there are 24 Tarot in a deck, and that the 2 missing from most decks represent the highest stage of human evolution, the pinnacle of man. That our society’s ancient means of describing the world, the Tarot, has not yet caught up with the latest advances in human thought and therefore needs to be expanded as described by Leary, Rider, and Wilson in the Game of Life. I just made a mistake and hit 3 instead of 4.

One you can be sure of, I am not familiar with this Grail you speak of. Pray, tell me more.

-Rev. Jesse

02:42 / 16.06.02

Well I could tell you that I believe firmly in the circling Tarot which appears in Shea and Wilson's Illumanitus! The Shea-Wilson interpretation holds that each of the 22 trump is a life stage that a soul must endure and master. Once all 22 lifestages have been mastered, the soul returns to its origin, as the hermit comes to town from the mountain to teach.

~~Rev. Jesse

Ah, but if time is an illusion, then would not we be learning all the lesson’s at once, and wouldn’t the Hermit be both there and not there to light the lamp and blow it out, and teach us, and uneducate us?

I mean, I certainly think there is something to the Major Arcana reflecting life stages, but I wonder how they come to be divided into things that are not present all at the same time. The circle is a wonderful metaphor because each point on the circle is wholly present all at once, and it has no start and no end.

So, where is the origin from which the soul came other than the very place that the soul finds itself entangled in?!? the circle is our trap and it is our key to freedom, it seems to me that it is how you want to view the circle that will decide if you are waiting for something to come around, or if you are already there with it: are you the carousal or are you merely a rider of one of the horses?

Wrecks City-Zen

21:48 / 17.06.02

The "Grail" was a barbelith created Tarot trump...it can be found under "TAROT INDEX- CLICK HERE" thread in Magick. Sorry...I too do not know how too link...

Boy in a Suitcase

02:37 / 18.06.02

Um, doesn't the Chariot correspond to the Grail/Sangraal?

16:50 / 18.06.02

As does the Universe/World in a different way. Or the Ace of cups. The idea of the Grail is already included in the Tarot as it is. Setting aside its own trump is an act of giving that particular aspect a higher importance.

Boy in a Suitcase

23:53 / 18.06.02

Aha!
Here's another general question (I've been locked up studying tarot and qabalah so I will probably have lots more of these which I'll try to confine to this thread):
What exactly is Heru-pa-Kraath?

15:15 / 19.06.02

*scritches brain*
*searches web*

Horus the child, withdrawing intelligence, darkness, sometimes Set.

The Hermit, I believe.

Boy in a Suitcase

05:30 / 25.06.02

Word.
Here's some more questions for the ascended ones:
What do the houses/mansions in the backgrounds of many of the Rider-Waite cards mean?
Also, in 777, I'm coming across some things that are in [brackets]. For instance, the Wheel of Fortune corresponds to the sins of Bigotry, Hypocrisy, and [Gluttony]. Now why is Gluttony in brackets?