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Do you HONESTLY want a revolution? (my cry for help)

 
  

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Rage
09:30 / 10.06.02
Because personally, I like feeling special. I seem to get a sick kick out of being "outside of the game." I know that I claim to be pro-revolution, but I think that when it comes down to it I live for:

-complaining about societal programming and the masses
-this outsider feeling of underground understanding
-alienation from the nation
-laughing at "them"
-knowing that the world is fucked up and that most of the world doesn't know what I know

etc. etc. etc.

I'm sure you've all been through this shit, so my question is this: If a revolution were to take place, would my current identity be shattered into nothingness? Have I based my entire persona on a deconstruction of all that is "the norm?" Would a reversal of the mass culture into the counter be too much for me to take?
Wouldn't I now just bitch about all the CULTURAL sheep? I've always had an unjustified hatred for followers. My revolution of choice would be one that put an end to blind following. You can see how this wouldn't work. WIthout followers there are no leaders, hence there is nobody to go along with any revolution.

Revolution this, revolution that. I know. I must be boring you and cluttering up your bandwidth. It's always the same shit with me.

Ok. So help me out here. Where's the advice from those of you who have thought these exact thoughts? How did you overcome this obsessive blab? I really am the child of this board, even though some of you are even younger than me. It's like I'm Descendant Jr. or some shit. How cute!

But it's wearing thin and I'm going mad and I'm blabbing blabbing blabbing. I want to mantain this feeling of specialness while The Followers are forced to fend and think for themselves. I want everyone in this world to wander alone like I do. Then I want to join some secret society like disorganized organization of ESPers, as we play catch with some trippy looking ball Mind Moving Style. The fact that we all want this here makes me feel silly for even mentioning it.

I love being honest and opened, even if it shows what an idiot I am. Sometimes I joke around because I don't know what else to do. Because everyone else seems so AHEAD of me in this journey. It's like you guys have all COMPLETED this journey, actually, and I'm still on its path. I'm still not THERE yet.

I know that there IS no journey and that we create our OWN journey, but I think you guys know what I mean here. That's what I love about this place. You people know what I mean. Sometimes this seems a little too good to be true. I used to dream about this place. Before I knew it existed, I mean.

That fact that we all used to dream about this place before we knew it existed makes me feel silly for even mentioning it too.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
09:38 / 10.06.02
i don't know how old you are, rage, but i'll bet you're way younger than me - 35. so i would hope to be in a different place to you in a lot of respects.

"-knowing that the world is fucked up and that most of the world doesn't know what I know" - thing is, rage, just about everybody DOES know that the world is fucked up. some are doing rather well out of it, a lot are doing very badly, and many can blot it out or deal with it in their own way.

being an outsider for me and a lot of people means encountering shitloads of hostility and discrimination. there's a big difference between merging into the crowd and feeling safe when you walk down the street.

humans need to change a lot before a revolution is possible. i live for a time when humans treat the planet and everything on it with respect and responsibility. for that, i'd trade my outsider status with pleasure.
 
 
Ellis says:
09:53 / 10.06.02
I don't want a revolution per se. I just want people to learn to be nice, caring, sympathetic to each other. But i doubt that will ever happen so I just drink instead.
 
 
Traz
11:07 / 10.06.02
I think the word "revolution" has connotations of bloodshed and mob rule; only the looniest of the cultural fringe are hoping for an actual armed uprising that will depose The Man. "Revolution" is just a buzzword for "progress," nowadays.

Also, I ought to point out that you're not special because you rail against the depredations of The Man; you're special because you're Rage. By the same token, this board isn't unique because it propogates subversive memes; it's unique because it's Barbelith. Identity is based on what we are, not what we aren't.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:50 / 10.06.02
I want a revolution in the sense that I think the world as it stands is like unto a big bucket of skunk guts in sardine oil on a hot day, and I would like it to change. I'm not bothered about how unspecial I'd feel afterwards, coz I don't feel too different from the Mindless Herd now and I'd still be me.

you're not special because you rail against the depredations of The Man; you're special because you're Rage... Identity is based on what we are, not what we aren't.

Precisely.
 
 
Rage
16:28 / 10.06.02
I'm 18. You could practically be my mother, SFD.

I know and agree with all of this. I was using "revolution" as a relatively relative term. Of course the whole world realizes that the whole world is fucked up, and that what makes me special is me and not my politics. You guys underestimate me sometimes.

This post is very "you-know-what-I-mean." I kindly ask for you to forget about the actual wording and take this post for what you know I meant.
 
 
Traz
16:38 / 10.06.02
Didn't mean to sound condescending. Corny, yes; condescending, no.
 
 
Saveloy
16:47 / 10.06.02
"How did you overcome this obsessive blab?"

Experience, for me. The simple process of living and working with people who I guess would fit your definition of "them" removed any beliefs or feelings I developed in my idiotic yoofhood that:

1 - "they" were all the same
2 - they were any less deserving of respect
3 - I was particularly special

You can achieve the above and still enjoy being a miserable misanthrope, mind. I still hate just about everyone I haven't met and everything they say and do, I just don't assume I'm right to be annoyed. I suppose it depends upon how demanding you are. I'm easily irritated by things but also easily pleased.
 
 
Rage
17:00 / 10.06.02
But I know that there is no "they" and that everyone is unique in their own way. It goes way beyond this.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:10 / 10.06.02
Sooner or later, idealism and reality come to some kind of compromise. By which I don't mean that idealism turns out to be bollocks- far from it- they both have to accomodate each other somehow. And idealism is new every day, not just the province of the young.

I dunno- I'm 30 but most of the time I feel like I'm about 17. (The rest of the time I feel about a million, but that's not so much fun.)

The point is, you don't need to feel superior/inferior/other- every man and woman is a star, after all- and you don't need to laugh at the sheep, or even pity them. What we all do, as sheep, is share the bits of information between us that will eventually get us out of the shed.

Then, of course, we all get scared by tractors 'n' stuff. But such is life.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:37 / 10.06.02
Just to add: thanx. I now have "Bloody Revolutions" by Crass going round in my head. Which is a vast fucking improvement on any music I've heard today.
 
 
Rage
17:39 / 10.06.02
I just moderated two comments to combine with each other. The second comment, which was suppose to merge with the first, was deleted like I wanted- but the first comment wasn't edited so that the merge took place. Now my second comment is gone, and I didn't get to say what I wanted to say in that reply.

Please fix? Then go ahead and delete this comment?
 
 
alas
20:18 / 10.06.02
dear rage--i'm another "practically old enough to be your mother"--36! but like little stoatie i don't feel that much different from when I was 18.

But I'm not going to preach (I hope): I think i know what you mean--I experienced a little of this when Clinton was first elected; it was the first time I'd ever voted for someone who'd won! And it seemed exciting--like the utopian revolution could happen! (ok ok: I was young--sorta! I was naive--definitely!) But it was almost scary: the Dems for the first time in my life had control of house, senate, executive branch! Things could change!

I didn't realize how deeply sold out things were. I didn't realize how nasty the Republicans still were. I didn't realize how powerful the corporate interests were, how impotent the mainstream media had become, was becoming. How NPR and PBS were going to be attacked and tamed. . . .

So, my feeling is: don't worry: even if things look good, there will always be plenty of reasons to feel alienated and isolated and to need to seek out places like Barbelith! But it's obvious, to me, that you know a lot more than I did at age 18, so you get plenty o' props from me.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:39 / 10.06.02
Lead me to the barricades, Mother CouRage! Ah, youth, what bliss... You'll be fine, Rage. By the time it all starts to makes sense, it gets harder to make sure your heart's in the right place is all.

The Revolution hasn't been cancelled, it just has to take a while to ferment. It's like dieting. If you have sudden, exciting, exhilirating results, you just put it all on again. If it comes off slowly, it changes whole lifestyles, for keeps.
 
 
gravitybitch
01:22 / 11.06.02
I'm going to chip in as the "old maiden aunt" - being over 40, female and single...

What I've found is that laughing at the sheep adds a little spice to my day. When it's July in San Francisco, completely fogged in, and all the tourists in shorts are turning blue, I laugh my ass off... but I don't make a real habit of laughing at people; it's just too sour.

In general, I've tried to get out of the habit of defining myself in terms of what I'm not (and this is still a work-in-progress!). I find the things I am and then go do those things joyously. I'm not straight, so I found a queer magazine to volunteer for. I work in a federal building, so I fly my queer/punk/art colors proudly (and show up every Halloween in trousers, white shirt and tie, as flat-chested as I can manage). I take the bus in to work, not because I don't have a car, but because I don't want to create the extra carbon dioxide. Etc...

The most subversive thing in the world is a truly happy mutant, and that's what I want to be when I grow up!

'belle
 
 
Rage
06:46 / 11.06.02
Fuck. Ok, I'll try this again. No more post editing for me. Does someone have it in for me here? Why didn't you let me edit my post? Blah.

Anyway-

This was not meant to be another one of them revoltuion posts. This was meant to be here so I could get some advice.

The following thought is consuming me:

I'd love to see a cultural mindshift that would entail an increase of individuality and independent thought, but if this mindshift were to take place I would no longer be able to complain about "the lemmings" or even differentiate myself from them anymore than I differentiate myself from the people here. I like differentiating myself from "those who have not freed their minds," because I feel like it's something that I've earned. I've achieved this state of independent thought without the aid of any cultural mindshift, and I'm even proud of myself for it. If a "revolution" of independent thought were to take place, (which is somewhat of a contradiction right there- because people would be thinking for themselves due to the influence of others) I feel that I would lose my sense of specialness. My specialness that relates to being in this mental state without it being "the average mental state to be in, now that the revolution has taken place". I feel I would be justanotherhippie. While this is really all I am now, and while I'm "special" as the next person no matter where the cultural mindset is, I feel a sort of deserving joy in being "one of the few."

My question is: what do I do to stop obsessing over this shit?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:05 / 11.06.02
Umm... probably not much help, but I never stopped obsessing over this shit. I think it'll probably bug me till the day I die.
 
 
bio k9
18:33 / 11.06.02
What do I do to stop obsessing over this shit?

Wait.

And meet different people.

I know youre all about getting to know a billion different "free minded individuals" but thats not what I mean. I mean meeting people you wouldn't currently want to know, the "lemmings" of which you speak. The best way to do this, sadly, is to have a job. Its just like highschool but with less people. When you're around someone for * hours a day, five days a week, you get a better idea of what they're really all about.

Everyone is special and unique and, in that, we are all the same.

"By the time it all starts to makes sense, it gets harder to make sure your heart's in the right place is all." is the truest thing I've heard in a while.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:27 / 11.06.02
My question is: what do I do to stop obsessing over this shit?

Get the fuck out of wherever you are and go find new people and places that don't immediately fit into the way you see the world. Come with me to live in Key West for a month or two. It'll be great.

Or how about this. This problem stems from you taking pride at having been "freed" from the illusion of society, yes? I'm not that much older than you, but here's what I learned really quickly after being where you seem to be now:

You are not "free", because you were never in bondage. The chains you see on other people, that used to keep you down, exist only in your head. There is nothing to liberate, nor is there anything to liberate it from.

So, congratulations, you've escaped from an imaginary trap. Does this really make you feel more special than the average person who doesn't see the chains that aren't really there?

I'm not trying to sound condenscending, but this is something you should think about. If you want to stop obsessing about it, it's time to realize why none of it is worth obsessing about anyway.
 
 
Persephone
20:53 / 11.06.02
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind...
 
 
BioDynamo
21:24 / 11.06.02

There will always be people with better reasons than you to wish for a revolution, for a total overturning of everything. No matter who you are, where you are, someone else is taking the shit worse than you are.

This doesn't mean that your wish for revolution is unjustified.

A lot of the people who would need the revolution more than you do are not wishing for it to come, not working to bring it about. There are many reasons for this, many of them good.

So, if you wish to "stop obsessing about" whether you are feeling too proud of your mindshift, whether the revolution is identical with an increase of individuality, and how unique you would be (or not) in the case "the revolution" actually "happened", how about actually working with the people who have an even shittier deal than you? Not for them, not trying to bring them a preordained Word that you are in posession of, just working together with them. A lot of them haven't "freed their minds", yet most of them are people who you will be able to speak about oppression with.

And you will be able to rage together with some of them, and it will be good. And suddenly you will have so many things to do that obsessing will be the last you have time for.
 
 
Oresa delta 20
21:48 / 11.06.02
Now i'm no expert on this, but surely, in the aftermath of the Revolution, civilisation would still be split into two seperate camps: those who were set free by the revolution, and those who were set free by themselves (i guess they would be the ones who precipitated the revolution in the first place).

Since you clearly consider yourself to be part of the latter camp Rage, it seems to me that you would still be confronted with a world full of sheep. You would continue to laugh at these people, not for not being able to think for themselves, but for having to be told how to think for themselves.

Perhaps, in that case, the revolution is already underway: setting people "free" slowly, and one by one, without their knowledge. This could be what led all of us here.

Anyways, enough thinking, free or otherwise, for one night. I have to go drink some milk for a friend of mine............
 
 
Rage
18:59 / 12.06.02
Thank you Manga. I suspected this all along, but I was afraid it would be harder to... um... tell the difference between "the two groups." It's all childish bullshit. I know.

Johnny, I already lived there. I got sick of how there was no local music that wasn't cover band like. You know Silverman and Lance-who-quotes-1984-constantly? Doin the Duval Crawl, yo.

I've hung out with what I referto as "the lemmings." I've tried to help them, (and we're talking about honest help here- not preaching) understand them, even unite with them. All I've gotten was "what drugs are you on?" and "That's too deep, man. Just chill. Argh! My HEAD!"
 
 
autopilot disengaged
22:08 / 12.06.02
the world's divided into two types of people. people who refer to other people as 'sheep'. and people that... don't.

draw yr own conclusions.
 
 
Rage
14:21 / 13.06.02
So that's it!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:27 / 13.06.02
I think this is one of those things you've just got to burn off slowly. Maybe you do see the traps that people have fallen into, the grooves that they're stuck in. Only the friction of experience can show you your own invisible prison, tho'... sadly. At 28, I'm still tripping against bars that I never knew were there.
 
 
Rage
14:48 / 13.06.02
True. That's what sucks about this whole "growing up" thing. I've gotta go through all this experience and have all my shit deconstructed and resurrected and tossed out the window by no other than myself. Then I get to create something new and the whole cycle repeats until I realize that I'm just a kid who doesn't know anything. I should simply take things in and listen. I can't just ask you how to break out of this self-created invisible prison I've created, can I? I've gotta figure it out for myself. But what am I breaking out of? What's my prison? I realize that I've made up these "groups" in my own head, and that there is nothing that truly seperates me from anyone else. But there's something that still bothers me about a large percentage of humanity in general, and there's something mental I've achieved that most others haven't, and for some reason I like it this way. It gets really bad sometimes, where this is all I can think about.
 
 
grant
18:10 / 13.06.02
The Book by Alan Watts.

And Siddhartha by Herman Hesse.

That's my prescription.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
18:55 / 13.06.02
ok, i'll bite. um...more.

i think you're right in saying that what plenty people perceive or represent as revolutionary thought/action actually draws more of its motivation from opposition to the existing order. that, in this sense, it's an emotional, intellectual or even spiritual response to a system one feels alienated from - and only makes sense in the same context of opposition.

that most natural outsiders - and i include myself here - relish their outsider status, and find the idea of building something new, taking over responsibility for what comes next immeasurably less sexy (if we take the definition of actual revolution as being 'bringing down the old order, and rewriting power relations.')

but i don't really think this is a organized political thing, is it? nor a people-power, historical revolt. sounds more to me like trocchi's 'invisible insurrection of a million minds' - an incremental cultural shift.

when we were discussing responses to the whole 9/11 nitemare, i remember talking to fly about what position we should, ideally, advocate. 'revolutionary' seemed naive, idealistic - and it was difficult to see the conditions necessary to feed the desire in a stable, prosperous society like our own.

i suggested counter-reactionary. it puts me in a one man dialectical battle with those political elements i detest, gives me an actual target that needn't be a utopian daydream, and provides an artistic raison d'etre all in one. hence the title of a piece i put forward in a group exhibition, few years back:

"artists should be eternal dissidents."
 
 
Shortfatdyke
19:22 / 16.06.02
eternal dissident? i like that...

been thinking about this a lot over the last few days. not really in relation to what rage meant, but barbelith has 917 members and i wonder why they're here. and how many of them honestly do want a revolution. there's not many replies to this thread, so it's difficult to tell. perhaps my 'yes' is down to the fact that i would have a fair amount to gain from revolution/radical change. i thought i would mellow out as i got older, but here i am, 35 years old and getting more and more angry. it worries me greatly that the 'counter culture' does not include me; i see and read about and experience injustice every day and i know many many others are in a far worse situation that i could ever be in, but still nothing really changes because those that have, don't want to give a bit to make life better for those that haven't. it would be interesting to really have a show of hands here, to see where people really stand. to be honest, i got so fucking depressed a couple of days ago i remembered what i felt to be the only two real revolutionary acts: drop out of the system completely or commit suicide. even/especially on barbelith, i feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall - i'm well away from perfect and i try to continually look at myself and learn - but when stuff like the continual use of the word 'cunt' passes as okay here, i seriously wonder what the point is. i'm working on changing my life pretty radically (again!!) to get closer to the life that i really want to lead - i want to get as close to revolutinary act number one as i can, because i don't want to have to choose the second option, however fucking tempting it sometimes is. the world is not changing fast enough for me. how about you?

do you honestly want a revolution?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:51 / 16.06.02
I guess the problem with words like cunt or prick is that there's a certain amount of doubt in people's minds as to whether their use (in a derogatory sty-lee-ah) is defensible or not. Some people who would resist what they regard as hate-speech don't feel that there's a problem with body-part related epithets.

And yeah, the brick-wall feeling is familiar, except that these days I sometimes feel that the brick-wall is jumping out when I least expect it and banging itself against my head.

Dropping out of the system for me is out because my existance as a functioning adult is dependant on my being propped up with drugs. Suicide- even if I was disposed to contemplate it- is not what I'd think of as a revolutionary act. It's too easy to misinterpret or dismiss.
 
 
bio k9
22:58 / 16.06.02
Suppose I should respond since I get the feeling that at least some of SFDs post was aimed at me.

While i've rarely, if ever, called a woman a cunt or whore, I have on occasion called various women bitches. For want of a better expletive, I quess. The thing is, no one complains when I call my boss a dick, hard-on, or cock. So why is cunt so offensive? Should I call a female supervisor a "glorious virtuous goddess of light" when she treats me like shit? Fuck that, she gets what he gets.

And as far as banging you head on the wall goes, just because you state your opinion doesn't mean others are going to agree with it. And just because they don't agree with it doesn't mean they havent given it thought.
 
 
gozer the destructor
23:16 / 16.06.02
If people do want a revolution, what kind? what would you hope it would accomplish? what are you doing to encourage it? have you considered the actuality of a war against the state or would you prefer for it to be done by people other than you as you stand from a bolshevik distance? should it come from the (at the moment hardly political) unions?

If not;

What are your feelings about the current system ie capitalist hierachies, the current trend of nationalism esp. England at the moment? What real effect do reforms have on the average voter? If none then how can it be rectified without violent action? Can social change be achieved with out confontation?

My own opinion is that power is never given up, it is only taken; no one should have authority over others; to form any kind of non-hierarchical democracy, the people forming a society must organise themselves and continue to practice equality.
 
 
Baz Auckland
08:49 / 17.06.02
I want a revolution, but don't know where to start. One of the reasons I skipped out on Mayday was because I felt vaguely hypocritical since I a)worked at Starbucks, b)was still very much in the system and hadn't been doing much to leave it. My plan on returning to Canada is to try and get my life outside the system, and be as environmentally conscious as think I can be and all that.

I've been thinking that a revolution can't come through elections and protests, but maybe through everyone just opting out of it all. But that usually involves communes or squats and I don't really know how those work.... A peaceful revolution through starting small and getting a group to live outside together and then getting more and more people?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:59 / 17.06.02

While i've rarely, if ever, called a woman a cunt or whore, I have on occasion called various women bitches. For want of a better expletive, I quess. The thing is, no one complains when I call my boss a dick, hard-on, or cock. So why is cunt so offensive? Should I call a female supervisor a "glorious virtuous goddess of light" when she treats me like shit? Fuck that, she gets what he gets.


Except she doesn't, because "dick" and "cock" aren't very offensive, and "hard-on" is just odd.

Now, to avoid threadrot, new thread, starting in the Conversation and maybe moved to the Head Shop if it justifies it later.
 
  

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