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Pleasure/Pain Principle...

 
 
that
14:09 / 09.06.02
Dunno how many UK people remember that advert for Mullerlight or something, where there are two women sitting on a park bench, one eating a tub of low fat yoghurt. And they are pondering the 'pleasure/pain principle', whereby if you get pleasure you have to pay for it with equal amounts of pain? Anyway, low fat yoghurt doesn't go straight to the hips, so the Mullerlight-eating woman isn't suffering at all...however, some poor fucker behind her is being attacked by bees and having dogs bite him in the crotch, etc - presumably to pay for her pleasure. Anyway, I am going somewhere with this, kind of... does anyone ever feel that unless they pay in blood beforehand they are not deserving of any pleasure whatsoever? And I'm not talking about this in a sexual sense... I mean in general - do you feel like you're not deserving of whatever happiness comes your way unless you've suffered sufficiently first? Just wondering...
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
15:40 / 09.06.02
Not strictly; and although it's certainly true that a feeling of pleasure will invariably follow a struggle due to a sense of accomplishment, I don't think you necessarily have to go through that period of unpleasantness/struggle/whatever in order to take pleasure in something.

As to deserving pleasure (i.e. if you feel you are entitled to enjoy something), then I can only answer for myself, and only with a resounding yes. If I take pleasure in something for which I haven’t worked, then I take pleasure in it - or rather I take pleasure in the fact that I've received something regardless of whether or not I deserved to (free gift, free beer, etc.). If I take pleasure in something for which I've worked, then the pleasure is more from a sense of having achieved, both of which points lead me to the conclusion that just as the cause of pleasure is variable, so the morality surrounding it is also variable.

Just my two pence worth...
 
 
Persephone
00:07 / 10.06.02
I can't feel happiness if I've suffered. After suffering, all I can do is sleep & then hope to wake up remembering not too much. But here I have to substitute "struggle" for suffer, because I don't think that my life merits the latter word.

I was actually just thinking in this vein relative to reading Ulysses --to wit, I like things easy. If something's a lot of work to do, I'm usually too wiped out when the thing's done to feel much of anything. Whereas things that don't take any work please me inordinately, like reading the Iliad.

Therefore pleasure for me is connected to happenstance; and while I may not be deserving, I don't believe that it's granted to me to earn or unearn pleasure through struggle or suffering (which for me would cancel the pleasure anyway.) But I also don't believe that it's granted to me to hold on to pleasure, which has its own mind. So if I'm in a pleasant state, I'm always slightly aware of its passing.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
01:15 / 10.06.02
I kind of get this the other way around- if something's good I'm constantly aware of the fact that I will suffer later.
 
 
Margin Walker
04:11 / 10.06.02
All suffering is caused by desire. Now if I only had a golden gut like Bhudda, I'd be, like, soooo more enlightened.

*sigh*
 
 
Shortfatdyke
07:27 / 10.06.02
i hated that mullerlight advert - that continual 'dilemma' that women are supposed to have over whether or not to eat something they want to eat.

everyone deserves pleasure. as long as that pleasure doesn't involve (non consensually) stomping on others (humans or otherwise). else, why the hell are we here?
 
 
bitchiekittie
11:31 / 10.06.02
hell no

I dont believe that everything has to come with a price, sometimes you just get goddamn lucky
 
 
bitchiekittie
11:31 / 10.06.02
but then again, I dont believe in luck. or karma. but I regularly tout both
 
 
grant
19:17 / 10.06.02
Pretty instinctually, yes.

I started aiming for "contentment" rather than "happiness" back in high school, and it seems to work pretty well.
 
 
Grey Area
19:20 / 10.06.02
If I experience pleasure, sooner or later a little voice comes along and tells me that I should feel guilty about it. I ignore it until it goes away and I can devote myself to the pleasure again.
 
 
Yay Paul
12:10 / 11.06.02
I'm with the Kittie on this one...
Don't really believe in it, but reg tell people off for bad Karma!

But then again, I think I have been bloody lucky most of the time and there's a few things I feel like are my fault and I'm paying for my luck ...

*Warning Sirens Ahoy*
Did I just contradict myself?
Ok I'm confused now.
I need to go lie down ...
 
  
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