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England 1 Argentina 0

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20:59 / 07.06.02

Do I not care about football because I have no loyalty, or do I have no loyalty because I don't care about football?

Hmm. Which answer would annoy Tebbit more?

21:34 / 07.06.02

Being raised by Italians in England, I was always made to feel that I had a momentous choice before me. Which side to support? Where would my loyalties lie? But somehow I never managed to identify either side as my own - I'm sure I know why, but its all too complex to relate.

So now I can't bring myself to support any team. The choice has been made - it is an abstention.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

22:00 / 07.06.02

Thanks, grant. Which again, is why the current bar near my house is staying open 24 hrs. So Americans that are interested and expats can watch and still get drunk.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:16 / 08.06.02

I'm just amazed by the manner in which England won - strong defending? Well done to Sven for finally getting an English side who can hold a 1-0 lead under pressure...

Riz - really intrigued why you interpreted the noise as being "a massive, collective roar of anger" when in all likelihood it was either joy, shock of just tension (there's nothing quite like the sound a group of people make collectively when a ball whizzes over the crossbar). Whilst I have to confess to being a little terrified by some of the people in Trafalgar square I heard being interviewed on the radio, I also think some people here are (surprise! again!) making a bit of a leap in assuming "average person pleased by the result" = "terrifying lout keen to kill for St George"...

And didn't the Argies have terrible hair?

21:44 / 09.06.02

I just feel it was nice to see Teddy and Super Trev on the pitch. More Fowler is the next move...sorry, I'm not really adding to the nationalist vs. National Front debate here but I did have a lot of fun watching the match with friends and we did celebrate and we aren't Nazi thugs, we just enjoyed watching the football and having a team to get emotionally involved with. Watching games like this give you a cathartic blow out like the Greek theatre and the gladitorial games...only no one dies. People blow off this shit they carry around and get to feel good.

Only problem is some of them carry it further.

As one of the people who doesn't like football and yet got carried away with the crazyness I can appreciate the danger this poses but *blah blah blah* It is just a small minority of fans who give the rest a bad name *blah blah blah*. However trite this sounds it is (fairly) true and most people who you see leaping like fools and shouting insults at the Argentinians are the same people who during the Falklands war were upset that Ozzie wasn't playing in the FA (?) final. Racism accusations can be levelled but that's true in every country that is watching their own team. Everyone wants something to cheer and we can't level accusations solely at the English - what about the Argentinian goalie who was 'fighting' this match as a revenge action for the people he lost in the war. Are we any worse/better than that when we cheer Beckham?

Have we heard about any serious English hooligans yet? Or has the Japanese prison hulk dealt with that? Hooliganism bad so pre-emptive arrests and incarceration good?

22:55 / 09.06.02

Don't pay much attention, I'm just a brazilian. But the impression that it'd have been a delightful tie if it wasn't for that penalty is still with me.

Arrr, hate those easy penalty goals! And praising Becks because of a given score ("Oi! Here's the ball and here's the target, two inches from each other. I know you can do it!") annoyed the hell outta me.

Nevertheless, it was a great tense game, and I really hope Argentina gets to the other round, cause they're too good.

Knodge - YOUR nemesis!

13:21 / 10.06.02

Easy penalty? There is a keeper trying to keep it out still. And I cannot imagine the pressure that was on Beckham to score. After the way he was villified four years ago... he must have felt his knees buckling when he had to step up to the spot. Easy? Yeah...

13:54 / 10.06.02

No, no, no: the way Beckham felt doesn't change the fact that it's quite difficult, almost impossible, for any keeper to defend a penalty. No time to see the ball coming, it's practically a guess by the keeper based on the position of the player before he shoots. "Easy", therefore.

Finally, I'm not criticizing Beckham. I'm criticizing this kind of goal scoring, because it's not about the habilities of the team (and I think both teams played very well, though I expected more from Argentina). Same way, two of Brasil's goals against China were shite (as the way we won from Italy in 92). But, as I said, that's just the perfectionist in me.

16:08 / 10.06.02

Impossible for a keeper to defend a penalty Pacha?

[Apparently not!]

Anyone who saw Bruce Grobbelar's '84 European Cup Final crazy legs knows that a keeper can have an effect!

Knodge - YOUR nemesis!

17:07 / 10.06.02

I think the atmosphere around the shooter (and his nervousness) has a massive impact on the shot. Is the shot as easy to make during a must win game at the World Cup as it is during a Wednesday practice session? Ask Baggio how easy that shot is under pressure!

I also think it is wrong to say it is nearly impossible for the keeper to stop it.

19:21 / 10.06.02

Sorry, Dolce, couldn't access the url (care to try again? I'm interested.) Anyway, "almost impossible" is not the same as "impossible" :b If it was truly impossible it wouldn't make sense putting a keeper there.

You may have a point about the pressure, Water, but I still think penalty goals disregard the whole of the game and the work of both teams. I know it's supposed to be like that, but it's just a punishment (unlike death penalties, obviously), it simply destroys the fun, the art of it.

Go on, call me a purist. I don't mind. Aaaaarr.

20:05 / 10.06.02

That must've been the first football match I've sat all the way through, largely because everyone in the office was so excited I got vicariously swept along. The game itself, however, left me utterly cold/bemused/vaguely resentful that I just couldn't 'get it'; I had to concentrate to avoid glancing away at important moments and thus irritating my work colleagues.

Oh well, I'm just glad someone else noticed the Argentinian players' shit hair...

20:29 / 10.06.02

pacha--I love the fact that you're a purist about futbol!

21:18 / 10.06.02

I love Pacha because she's Brazilian and supporting the Argentines. Not a lot of that cross-the-border solidarity up here with all my Scottish confrères being total arses about not supporting the English team. They deserved to win and God bless them through the next round (unless she's watching Wimbledon by then). What more do you want - Georgeous gorgeous (and incidentally brilliant with his feet) David and there's even a player called Butt?

21:55 / 10.06.02

Aw, ZoCher, shucks! I love you too! And I should say: my abaesque glaswegian boyfriend, Meme B, didn't resist and went all screams and claps of excitement for England. The cutest traitorous thing ever

alas! Are you a purist too? Lets make an anti-penalty league!!

07:20 / 11.06.02

well i don't even like goals that come from set pieces. it's open play or nothing for me.

The Natural Way

07:40 / 11.06.02

"Oh well, I'm just glad someone else noticed the Argentinian players' shit hair..."

Pretty hard to miss: a cross between a Timotei (sp?) commercial, Jesus and Conan. Upsetting.

08:26 / 11.06.02

did anyone watch the us game? i can't remember the last time i watched a soc- i mean, football game. i've got a friend who is relgiously watching this stuff from 11 pm through 7 in the morning, completely revearsed his schedule to rock out with this stuff. anyway, our goalie's a genius,and i love it when they do jet li style back flips. maybe if the us goas far, someone will make a big soc-- i mean football movie using bullet time and wires.

13:31 / 11.06.02

Oh my God, that's awesome... Kung-Futbol!

14:41 / 11.06.02

Don't make me bust you up with my HTML-fu man!

I can't get the bloody link to work either. Basically it was a report from the majority of the English papers, last week, claiming that after extensive tests, reearchers have found that after teaching Goalkeepers to recognise body language signals, the ratio of penalty saves increases. That and oversized, webbed hands.

05:43 / 21.06.02

Anyone up watching the Bravil game then, I'm the only person in the office - got the TV on though.....wooandhoo

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