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Underground > Policy & Help >

A bit alarmed

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:18 / 05.06.02

I may be being grandmotherish, but: have there been more straight-males-talk-girls-and-related-issues threads in the Conversation than usual recently? Is this a trend? 'Cos I'm not crash-hot keen, if it is. The 'jail-bait' thread sort of worries me, not because of the topic per se, but rather because of the way it's playing out.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:17 / 05.06.02

Hmm. Let's go and bump some penis threads.

I don't think it's a cause for concern, really- it's only been the last couple of days and it's not like there's anything terribly ugly being said. These things just sort of come and go. I put it down to Bank Holiday lethargy myself.

08:48 / 06.06.02

I've noticed it for a while, actually. But I'm not exactly sure what to do about it. I mean if you're going to have those sorts of conversations, the conversation is the place to have them, I suppose. I just don't really respond to them but as I'm a believer in Barbelith as a "you get what you give" sort of place, really coming up with more interesting topics is a way to go.

And there have been some good ones lately - both threads started by Haus and sfd related to India and Pakistan have not been without merit.

Mr Wolfe

09:28 / 06.06.02

This seems quite ridiculous. So what is there are lots of threads like this? I mean really, what's the big deal? I think you're overreacting Nick, to a problem that doesn't exist - or at least didn't exist.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

11:39 / 06.06.02

yes, im curious, if it were a Homosexual-males-talk-males-and-related-issues would that be ok? not trying to start anything, im just curious, there have been a lot of these style threads in the past and no one raised alarums...

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:44 / 06.06.02

And, as ever, I wonder if somebody could actually *evidence* this flood of militant queer relationship gossip I appear to have missed...

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

13:19 / 06.06.02

i never claimed it was millitant

all i am saying is why is it alarming that there is discussion of hetero relations here? the jailbait thread was a link to a test where well over half of the posts were ppl reporting the results they got, no one said anything about trying to bang the girls/women in the test, it was only sexualized in an attempt to kill the thread.

and as far as hetero/hom sexual relationship posts, look up about 80% of any post involving the word SLASH haus, and youll find "queer relationship gossip" there.

Once again though, i have no problem with the homosexual topics, i was asking a question about how Nick and others judge what topics are alarming and what topics are not.

If only lesbians were asked to take the jailbait quiz, would that have made it ok?

Mr Wolfe

13:26 / 06.06.02

This is a daft thread, end of story. And somewhat...too anti-sexist? As in anyone making that much effort to be PC MUST be....

13:29 / 06.06.02

The jailbait thread is disturbing because the very fact that that quiz exists legitimises the idea that it's all right to leer at young girls once they're past the age of sixteen, and it's all right to get young girls up to look as if they're older than they are so that people feel less bad about leering at them, and oh look we've been leering at some girls who aren't actually sixteen yet *but it's OK 'cause we couldn't tell*... exploitative, and not the sort of thing I am especially comfortable with (which is why I avoided the thread). I don't think it necessarily has a great deal to do with queer/straight dynamics per se - though it does rather smack of locker-room chat - but I do think it would be equally disturbing no matter who was participating.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:46 / 06.06.02

Well, personally I would suggest that the "Jailbait or Legal" page's original purpose was to undermine precisely that - to confront people with the fact that "legal" pornography is ephebophilic and legitimises dodgy sexual attitudes to teens (was it not one of our very own barbeloids who expressed a desire to fuck the Olsen twins, when they were about 14). I'm not entirely sure what is concerning Nick at the moment...it doesn't *seem* to be much different to the norm, and the Conversation is after all a place for people to express themselves pretty much freely, albeit with others having the freedom to mention when they are being moronic, hateful, tiresome or boorish.

Elijah - "Slash" refers to fiction written presupposing the existence of homoerotic relations between generally canonically straight-identified fictional characters. Not exactly queer relationship gossip, unless you are fucking Captain Kirk. Are you fucking Captain Kirk? Are you? Are you? As yet, Special Boy Potus has yet to provide evidence of his contention that queer flirting has rotted many serious and worthwhile threads. Maybe you should take over his case files? May be some useful info there. (Which has nothing to do with the thread whatsoever, but to point at a very specific subject and cry "look! Queers! There! What are you complaining about?" is just...silly. But I see that I misunderstood your original post, and that you simply meant that there had been plenty "het-relationship chat" threads had always been around, which is of course perfectly true)

Meanwhile, Phil Knows! - you are very possibly the Knodger. Providing for the moment the benefit of the doubt, might I suggest that you take a breath before replying to things? At the moment your admirable passion is making your sentences a bit hard to understand.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

13:51 / 06.06.02

hehe house, i smelled callo earlier, perhaps you are right...

But yes, im not pointing and saying "look queers" im just wondering why nick and a few others feel threatened by hetero threads.

did the threads about two 'loids marriages offend, what with all it's hetero nomalcy, or is it the locker room banter style threads that bother?

Kit--i understand what you are saying, and agree, i took the test to see if i have gotten any better at judging ppls ages on site, so well, im still pretty bad at it, and it made me say ick.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:06 / 06.06.02

I'm not quite sure what Nick is objecting to, to be honest (which by no means suggests that his objections are groundless) - what sort of threads were you thinking of, Nickster?

I certainly don't have a problem with het threads like "I'm getting married", except they are a distant relative of "It's my birthday! (smiley)" or "It's *your* birthday! (smiley)", which are generally horrible, horrible wastes of bandwidth. "Het" threads like "women - why their refusal to suck my cock makes them stuck-up bitches" or comments like "I like to fuck the ho until my health is it 150, then shoot her to get my money back (take a bow, Special Board) are generally given the kicking they richly deserve, but are more about misogyny than heterosexuality. The only issue I tend to take with heterosexuality on the board is when they insist on displaying their vile perversions outside clearly-marked threads in the Conversation.

OK, joking. When people start talking at length and with grim determination about earcocking in threads which previously had struggled on without flirtation, or when somebody swoops dramatically to the rescue of somebody they fancy and rots the thread completely in so doing. Neither of which are particularly het-boy things. At least, you'd expect not...

We're The Great Old Ones Now

14:45 / 06.06.02

I'm not sure. I just caught a scent of rather un-examined boy-talk, and then the 'jailbait' thing made me overtly nervous.

I'm not quite in agreement with Kit-Cat - I dislike the tone of the test, but at the same time I can't feel that it's evil to notice a girl of seventeen who's dressed to kill, and be delighted by her sexiness - which is, according to society, hers to display as she chooses. I might not choose to do anything about it, 'cos I'm generally not interested in anyone more than five years either side of my age, but I'd be skeptical if anyone told me it was wrong to drool a little. The question of pictures; imagery over actuality, pattern over presence, then comes into the argument about eroticism, male gaze, pornography, blah blah, and I frankly get a bit lost.

If that thread had been along the lines of 'take this test and let's talk about how disturbing that is', I wouldn't have a problem.

I'm not going to the wall on this. I just thought it was worth raising, and I sort of felt it was incumbent on one of the straight males to do it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:07 / 06.06.02

Well, you have unexamined lemons, you make unexamined lemonade...I found the segue into discussions of the "which breasts are real, which breasts are fake" test particularly endearing.

Matthew Fluxington

18:15 / 06.06.02

I can't help but feel terribly naive about all of this - my intentions in starting that 'jailbait' thread was rooted entirely in when I took that test, linked from a blog, I was surprised by how intentionally tricky it was, and was curious to see how other people would score.

I really wish I had thought twice about it now, let me tell you...

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:07 / 07.06.02

Ah. Then it was worth having.

You made yourself think. Barbelith rocks.

08:28 / 07.06.02

Regarding the Jailbait issue, I think someone should start a topic on sexualised teenagers, the appropriateness of attraction, the semiotics of 'adulthood', child porn and the like in the Head Shop. It seems to be an interesting topic of debate that I think we could drag quite a lot out of.

Regarding 'un-thought-through' boyish sexuality, I can't help thinking that this is also quite an interesting topic of conversation, and the fact that Nick felt it worth raising indicates that there is something here worth talking about - but I'd suggest again that it would be best done in the Head Shop. Some of the questions worth raising might include - to what extend should one feel comfortable with expressing one's own sexuality, even if the display of that sexuality is considered irritating, thoughtless or even offensive / disgusting by others (or by society at large). Loads of interesting stuff to talk about there...