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Underground > Radio & Music >

Eminem's White America

  
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:51 / 28.05.02
The new Eminem LP is out - and for the most part, I'm not too crazy about it. Can someone tell me why the majority of the tracks that Dr. Dre produces for Eminem sound like the sort of thing the Backstreet Boys would reject for sounding too wussy? The big theme of The Eminem Show is Eminem and how his success is connected to his whiteness. The first song on the album, "White America", is probably the best example, and arguably the best track on the record. Here's an excerpt:


Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself
If they were brown Shady lose, Shady sits on the shelf
But Shady's cute, Shady knew Shady's dimples would help
Make ladies swoon baby (ooh baby!) Look at my sales
Let's do the math - if I was black, I woulda sold half
I ain't have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that
But I could rap, so fuck school, I'm too cool to go back
Gimme the mic, show me where the fuckin studio's at
When I was underground, no one gave a fuck I was white
No labels wanted to sign me, almost gave up I was like
Fuck it - until I met Dre, the only one to look past
Gave me a chance aand I lit a FIRE up under his ass
Helped him get back to the top, every fan black that I got
was probably his in exchange for every white fan that he's got
Like damn; we just swapped - sittin back lookin at shit, wow
I'm like my skin is it startin to work to my benefit now? It's..
White America! I could be one of your kids
White America! Little Eric looks just like this
White America! Erica loves my shit
I go to TRL; look how many hugs I get!

See the problem is, I speak to suburban kids
who otherwise woulda never knew these words exist
Whose moms probably woulda never gave two squirts of piss
'til I created so much motherfuckin turbulence!
Straight out the tube, right into your living rooms I came
And kids flipped, when they knew I was produced by Dre
That's all it took, and they were instantly hooked right in
And they connected with me too because I looked like them
That's why they put my lyrics up under this microscope
Searchin with a fine tooth comb, it's like this rope
waitin to choke; tightenin around my throat
Watchin me while I write this, like I don't like this (Nope!)
All I hear is: lyrics, lyrics, constant controversy, sponsors working
round the clock to try to stop my concerts early, surely
Hip-Hop was never a problem in Harlem only in Boston
After it bothered the fathers of daughters startin to blossom
So now I'm catchin the flack from these activists when they raggin
Actin like I'm the first rapper to smack a bitch or say faggot, shit!
Just look at me like I'm your closest pal
The posterchild, the motherfuckin spokesman now for
White America! I could be one of your kids
White America! Little Eric looks just like this
White America! Erica loves my shit
I go to TRL; look how many hugs I get!

So...do you agree with him? What do you think of the new LP?
 
 
Molly Shortcake
20:47 / 28.05.02
I agree with him.

Strangly enough all the kids I've seen with the new Eminem Cd have been black. But then again, I live in a black city.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
06:54 / 29.05.02
well yeah, i agree with the sentiment - it's the elvis syndrome again. he's doing very nicely thank you, out of america's racism. but judging by lines like: "Actin like I'm the first rapper to smack a bitch or say faggot, shit!" the world is in for the same old stuff. And what exactly does that mean - other rappers treat women and queers like shit, so i'm going to be just like them?

i haven't heard the album, but i did hear the new single. i thought it was very poor - weak and totally forgettable.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
11:17 / 29.05.02
I quite liked it the first few times I heard it but it was on such heavy rotation on all the music channels that that rather turned me off. Apparently he claims in the last track that he and Dre have been barebacking.

Is there an argument that he has been criticised overmuch for his hateful language because white liberals are either mostly unaware or uninterested in the sort of stuff coming from most black rappers (which was Eminems defense for his language) or because they consider it okay for them to say that?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
11:50 / 29.05.02
well, exactly. eminem gets attention *and* criticism because of his whiteness. the bottom line may well be that less people give a fuck if black women are being slapped around or referred to in hateful language.
 
 
tSuibhne
14:33 / 29.05.02
I think it's less that people don't care about black women, and more that as long as the music is maginalised (as most hip hop is) then it can be ignored. Eminem, by being white, has brought the issue into the mainstream. And so people are forced to confront it in some way. When his career ends, they'll go back to ignoring it.

The same trend can be seen with other rappers as well. Things like 2 Live Crew, the height of the OG stuff, etc. The size of the contraversy is directly linked with it's popularity with middle america.

Personally, I've dug some of his guest stuff, but every single I've heard from him bores me before I get around to picking anything up. The new one bored me by the time I finished hearing it for the first time. So I haven't payed a lot of attention to him.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:46 / 29.05.02
That's weird. I think Eminem's best work are his singles - "Without Me", "The Real Slim Shady", "My Name Is", "Drug Ballad", "Purple Pills". I think what he's best at is being super-pop, and he seems to be aware of that strength by having nearly all of the music on his albums be nearly indistinguishable from that on a boy band record. Actually, I think his beats are a lot cheesier than what the Backstreet Boys or Britney would use, and I'm baffled why more people don't mention that. Seriously, there's some tracks on The Eminem Show which I think would make Celine Dion go "hey, whoaaaa...that's a little too lame for me!"
 
 
Molly Shortcake
15:31 / 29.05.02
Eminem is the new Maryln Manson. Manson worships the devil while Eminiem does something much, much worse - hang out with black people.
 
 
tSuibhne
17:17 / 29.05.02
Let me clarify. I've found some of the stuff he's done interesting, but I'm on a limited budget. And I haven't heard anything that would put him on my must buy now list. I find it interesting, but not as interesting as other things that I could pick up.

The fact that I've just recently started to really get into hip hop plays a big factor in this. There's a whole lot of shit I still need to pick up.
 
 
YNH
19:37 / 29.05.02
Normally, I'd listen to the album more than once before posting; but I don't know if that's ever gonna happen. I think Show maintains what Crunchy once called Eminem's "weirdly Brechtian" moments. If, and only if, you listen to the album, you're forced to confront it from several angles. The beats are pretty weak, though - I got a laugh out of the video for "Without me" when Dre appeared to grudgingly nod along. Haven't they always erred on the cheesey side?

"White America" is one of the worst, though. The rap's delivered poorly, and the beat's easily forgotten. It's also not particularly insightful. Vanilla Ice still gets a lot of attention compared even to, say, Ice Cube. Some kick ass marketing and pop production got him into the light. He's a convenient target for critics once there.

But what about stuff like this? Is it the kind of thing he has to say to generate interest or something else?

Let your hair down to the track, yeah kick on back. Boo! The boogie monster of rap, yeah the man's back
with a plan to ambush this Bush administration, mush the Senate's face in, push this generation
of kids to stand and fight for the right to say something you might not like, this white hot light
that I'm under, no wonder I look so sunburnt, oh no I won't leave no stone unturned
Oh no I won't leave, won't go nowhere, do-si-do, oh, yo, ho, hello there
oh yeah don't think I won't go there, go to Beirut and do a show there
yah you laugh till your muthafuckin' ass gets drafted, while you're at band camp thinkin' the crap can't happen
till you fuck around, get an anthrax napkin, inside a package wrapped in saran wrap wrapping
open the plastic and then you stand back gasping, fuckin' assassins hijackin' Amtracks crashin'
all this terror America demands action, next thing you know you've got Uncle Sam's ass askin'
to join the army or what you'll do for their Navy. You just a baby, gettin' recruited at eighteen
You're on a plane now, eatin' their food and their baked beans. I'm twenty-eight, they're gonna take you 'fore they take me
Crazy insane or insane crazy? When I say Hussein, you say Shady
My views ain't changed, still inhumane, wait, arraigned two days late, the date's today, hang me!

Is he quitting: "Say Goodbye to Hollywood?" Or is he just kidding? "Without Me" sounds like a desperate plea for attention, but it's pretty sticky.

Anyone have a lyrics sheet? Is that "In[v]esting in your kids' ears" or "In[f]esting?"

shit, here I am posting about eminem...
 
 
bio k9
19:48 / 29.05.02
Im sure that his face is all over TRL because hes young and white but the boy has skills and would be selling records regardless. If being white was all it took to blow up in the rap game more people would be doing it. The three biggest white rap acts I can think of are Eminem, the Beasties and Vanilla Ice. The fact that the first two are white is only important because they rap about things that white kids can relate too. When the Beasties rap about throwing eggs, or Em raps about doing drugs, Little Johnny in suburbia can relate. Vanilla Ice's
white-ness probably had more to do with his success but he also has a radio friendly jam with a great bass riff. Seriously, people laugh at him now (myself included) but that song was good for its time.

Did I just defend Vanilla Ice?

Anyway, how many rappers go platinum on the black dollar? Not many. The majority of Jay Zs millions are comming from suburban white kids. Whether or not there is racism inherent in white people co-opting black culture is a different matter.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:29 / 29.05.02
I'm not sure why you are going on about Vanilla Ice...and as far as current relevence goes, Bubba Sparxxx, Fred Durst, and El-P are way ahead of Vanilla. What are you on about?

I'll talk about this more tomorrow, I'm really lacking in energy today.

For the lyrics to almost every hip hop release, go to the Original Hip Hop Lyrics Archive. It's one of the most useful music websites on the net.

For the archive of Eminem lyrics, including the entire new LP, go here.
 
 
YNH
07:18 / 30.05.02
The relevant key word modifying Vanilla Ice is even, Flux. I only mention him 'cause every time he graces the listening public with yet another reinvention we see him on VH1 and in text on the cover of Spin or Rolling Stone. It seemed more topical (success due to whiteness) than a media monster like Durst.

Incidentally, I was reading a dialogue between bell hooks and Cornel West that touched on white appropriation of black ideas in the academy: the Elvis Presley syndrome's omnipresence. Should we give little Marshall credit 'cause he at least cites Dre and other contemporaries?
 
 
bio k9
08:30 / 30.05.02
I was typing when YNHs post went on the board so I hadn't seen it. I mentioned Vanilla Ice because hes what most people think of when they think about white rappers. Does anyone consider Durst a rapper? Seriously? Bubba Sparxxx had a couple of minor hits and thats it. El P? Who knows who the fuck that is? Everyone knows Vanilla. Hes the low water mark that measures all white rap artists.
 
 
Jackie Susann
00:52 / 31.05.02
Vanilla Ice has been reinventing himself? Surely he's the one-hit wonder auteur of Ice Ice Baby, the star of Cold As Ice, and nothing else? I feel like I just found evidence of a secret strata of US pop music to debased to make it to Australia...

I've still only heard the single, which I loved (even though another houseguest at the place I was staying insisted on complaining about how much she hated Em for the length of the track - and me too in need of a bed to argue...) There was a hilarious review of the album in Melb's 'quality' paper today which talked a lot about Eminem's development as an artist, his tackling topical issues and even, quote-unquote, revealing his sensitive side (what, never heard Stan?)

I'd like to think that now his auteur status is more or less beyond debate, he's decided to drag his pseudo-pop-theory-backers deep, deep into the bog of cheesy pop culture (classic line from Without Me beig the one about how nobody listens to techno anymore, over a techno backing...) Any academic who wants to hitch his/her critical cred to the Marshall Mathers bandwagon (and there are plenty - from artforum types to postgrads, I'm sure there are an ungodly number of essays on The Semiotics Of Slim Shady underway) is going to find that Em is smart enough to keep slipping away, slipping in, finding a way through the cracks in whatever theory they've built. (Is it pointless to wank on about theory like this? But that's half the point of White American, isn't it, that his race makes him an object of critical consciousness in a way other rappers aren't - although i remember a great piece on, i think, joshblog, comparing Em and Jay-Z on their use of enjambement.)

Still having not heard the song, just read the words, I want to call it Pop Nietzsche - the critique of bad faith, the slave morality of his critics, Will to Power as Cheese. I don't think you can underestimate how smart he is at this stuff - it reminds me of that line of Deleuze's about how he thought of the history of philosophy as a way of fucking old philosophers in the arse and producing the kind of baby he wanted. Maybe that's the basic model of pop music crit - the critic as patriarch spawning the argument he was from the raw materials of this or that song, artist, album, whatever - but like Nietzsche, it's Eminem who gets up to strange things behind your back...

I'm sure you're all going to pull the piss out of me for this something shocking.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:42 / 31.05.02
Bubba Sparxxx's "Ugly" is not a minor hit. It was one of the biggest hip hop singles of last year.
 
 
Rev. Wright
09:44 / 31.05.02
Check out this video of White America
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
11:16 / 31.05.02
I'm still wondering if tSuibhne's claim that hip-hop is 'marginalised' is accurate...
 
 
Molly Shortcake
14:29 / 31.05.02
Of course it's not. As soon as hip-pop stopped being about self empowerment and questioning authority and became a disposable buffonish, fundamental materialist parody of itself it was quickly embraced by the mainstream. I agree with Spike Lee and Chuck D %1000: modern day minstrel show. Jay-Z cover story on USA Today.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:45 / 31.05.02
I think it is tremendously stupid to want an entire style of music to conform to one style or lyrical theme - there's no good reason why people can't do what they want with the basic hip hop template to express what they want, or why the public should be begrudged for choosing what styles they collectively like the most.

Hip hop originally started out as party music with a social conciousness, and if some people want to play up one side over the other (or ignore both entirely), I don't see what the problem is. Making proclaimations about what hip hop or any other style of artist expression SHOULD BE is anti-art and anti-humanity, I think.

And if you're trying to tell me that a lot of the more popular more "materialistic" hip hop has nothing to do with self-empowerment, then you are being both naive and horribly judgemental.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
14:52 / 31.05.02
I'm talking strictly in the pop-culture sence. And no, I don't think there's anything self empowering about fun-da-men-tal materialism. I'll admit to a certain degree of romanticism.
 
 
gentleman loser
14:54 / 31.05.02
Does anyone really think that mainstream america would pay any attention to Eminem if he wasn't white. Give me a break!

I got sick of the whole white boy rapper wannabe fad when all of the racist fuckheads I was forced to go to school with started calling each other "nigga" in the early 90's.

There's always a plethora of clueless pop culture critics who wants to hang the "voice of a generation" moniker on whoever the white suburban kiddies happen to be listening to at the moment, be it John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, Marilyn Manson, etc. etc.

Duelshock, I think you nailed the problem on the head!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:02 / 31.05.02
And no, I don't think there's anything self empowering about fun-da-men-tal materialism.

Has it occurred to you that what YOU think is empowering for underclass minorities doesn't matter? The ethics of their decisions is not up to you, or anyone else prone to moral grandstanding. Yeah, obviously, getting money and extravagantly spending it isn't the best road to empowerment, but it is an attractive and often productive way out of a bad situation. It is profoundly arrogant for you to tell someone what they do or do not find empowering.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:21 / 31.05.02
You know, one thing that really bugs me about how a lot of people interpret hip hop's appeal to a young white audience is that even guys like Eminem tend to discount the notion that the music itself is often wonderful, and that's reason enough for people to like it. A lot of the time is has nothing to do with wanting to emulate a lifestyle, or directly relating to lyrical subject matter - it's usually just because the music is good, and the mc is talented, and you don't need to be anything like the authors to appreciate that.

Also, people tend to forget that the mainstream of hip hop is a LOT more progressive and adventurous than most anything else played on the radio or on tv. It's a lot more refreshing and easier for young people to call it their own when it is something that often is breaking new ground. Think about guys like the Neptunes - there wasn't anything quite like them before they came around, and now they dominate pop and urban radio, because their music sounds fresh and new and 'futuristic'. Compare this with the rock music that gets airplay now - it's aggressively conservative, it's dull, formulaic, repetitive, overly reverent of the past. It's humorless, you can't dance to any of it - not the case with hip hop, which tends to be a lot wittier than the overwhelming majority of 'white' music.

When examining the popular alternatives, is it any wonder why hip hop culture is so huge with white audiences, with or without Eminem?
 
 
Molly Shortcake
17:03 / 31.05.02
Yeah, obviously, getting money and extravagantly spending it isn't the best road to empowerment but it is an attractive and often productive

..pipe dream that is remarkedly effective on marginalized children, who come from low income families with little to no education, ethnic or otherwise.

Bling, bling! Oh, shit. It was just a dream.
 
 
bio k9
10:34 / 01.06.02
What do you think of the new LP?

Downloaded most of it but I haven't heard the whole thing...I think the Aerosmith sample is sub-Puffy crap.

Does anyone really think that mainstream america would pay any attention to Eminem if he wasn't white. Give me a break!

I don't think the issue is that hes white. The issue is that white people are buying/listening to his albums. Eminem seems to think that they're only listening because hes white. Maybe hes right. But I suspect that the majority of rap acts that sell large numbers of records to a white audience sell them not only because of the artists color but because they speak directly to the fantasies/realities of that audience.

Two examples: The Beastie Boys and Dr. Octagon

I don't have any statistical data to back this up (so don't ask) but I imagine that both of these acts sold the majority of their albums to a white audience (the Beasties seem a given and I certainly don't know any black people that like Kool Keith the way the white boys do). The Beasties rapped about throwing eggs and keggers. It was all pies in the face, guitar samples, and girls girls girls. Octagon was 3000% space fantasy, Keith chillin on the moon with his Star Wars samples and space doo doo pistols. White boy album from a black artist.

As for these:
..pipe dream that is remarkedly effective on marginalized children, who come from low income families with little to no education, ethnic or otherwise.as opposed to the pipe dream of getting a quality education and going on to college after attending a run down inner city school. Especially if your parents (should you be lucky enough to have two) are lacking in education themselves. Bling, bling! Just a dream indeed.

I got sick of the whole white boy rapper wannabe fad when all of the racist fuckheads I was forced to go to school with started calling each other "nigga" in the early 90's.

You went to school with assholes. Congratulations.
 
  
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