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Underground > Comic Books >

Can the Invisibles stand the test of time?

02:34 / 27.05.02

Is this a timeless comic to be remembered by every generation, or will it fade away? Do you think future generations can forgive the inconsistent art, especially if those generations learn to respect the comic book medium?

02:48 / 27.05.02

I think it is timeless in the sense that it is still ahead of its time. Some of the story archs will be timeless because they perfectly capture the specific cultural vibe of the 90's.
The simple fact that its too long to fit in one nice graphic novel like say, Watchmen or Dark Knight, will keep it from ever reaching that status. I think as you see more young writers borrowing Morrison's themes over the years it will develop more of a cult status than it does now. I still see Morrison's Doom Patrol referenced in lots of reviews and articles on comics and how long ago has it been since his last issue there?

The Natural Way

07:53 / 27.05.02

Yeah, being all zeitgeist, it'll probably survive as a nice, funnybooky document of the late nineties - all the decade's conceits/concerns are in there: post-modernism, conspiracy theory, pop culture, big insect-machine gods,.....

13:34 / 27.05.02

I think the Invisibles will be 'timeless' in a Classic Cult Headfucking Text kind of way - never really to be officially recognised as a groundbreaking comic or sold in Waterstones in 10th-anniversary hardback editions or whatever, but instead destined to be passed around among stoners and weirdos from now until the end of time.. the comics equivalent of Illuminatus! or Valis..

13:37 / 27.05.02

Personally, I yet haven't got over the serious trauma the "inconsistent art" inflicted on my persona.

Given the above, which my therapist has made it clear that I will never get to see the whole book redrawn, I was saying last night to my wife that "The Invisibles" is indeed a comic-book that will be referenced, quoted and mentioned in every media as no other comic book probably has, both over the passing of time and in the number of direct references. We should assume that by 2012 someone is still going to remember it, and maybe we get the movie.

I doubt, however, that my 3 year old son will ever read it. Probably "The Georgeous Ultimates" will get his attention before.

13:37 / 27.05.02

Oh yeah, and I STILL would love to see blank badges and invisibles slogans incorporated into weirdo subcultures to the extent that, say, Cthulhu and 23 have been..

20:39 / 27.05.02

i bet it´s gonna have a similar status like naked lunch or philip k. dick´s books have or lovecraft. kind of too raw for mainstream senses for the art is often done by sterile mainstream hacks but the essence is there and potent and strong so the book will survive despite it sometimes looking like shit.

I get wet thinking about what could have been done if people like jill thompson, frank quitely, john ridgway had been given more room to explore. but there are some really great moments there and Morrison´s writing really shines. I mean I don´t think I care too much for steve yeowell´s art but the SAY YOU WANT A REVOLUTION trade is one perfect piece of literature.

try to remember: it´s only a game

Matthew Fluxington

22:10 / 27.05.02

I would hope that it goes down as one of Grant Morrison's weaker series, actually. I think it is, anyway. In the words of Ronald Thomas Clontle: "Time will vindicate me."

14:47 / 28.05.02

to that I say, well, just "BAH!" basically.

15:33 / 28.05.02

This may be a stupid question, but I've got to put it out here: maybe we should re-examine our assumptions of durability's relationship with value?

Is "immortality" or "timelessness" necessarily something to be desired? Does something have to be permanent in order to be beautiful or important?

Years ago I watched a group of Buddhist monks preparing a sand mandala: hundreds of man-hours went into the creation of this piece, a huge, intricate pattern of symbols, a two-dimensional map of the multi-dimensional mansions of God. Even leaving aside the richness of the symbolism, considered purely as design, it was breathtaking.

And when it was done, when the last grain of brightly-colored sand had been laid into the design, they destroyed it.

They made it for the express purpose of destroying it.

An extreme example, maybe: but why did Grant suggest that we destroy issue #1 of THE INVISIBLES immediately after reading it, anyway?

15:39 / 28.05.02

Was that a rhetorical question, Jack?

I was under the impression that destroying issue #1 was to have a dual purpose. Primarily, because those comics (and other pop culture artifacts) which we canno revisit become so much better upon reflection years later. And secondly, to spoil the speculation of the title, which unfortunately backfired, seeing as speculators would simply horde the last copies left, if Morrison's plan was to work.

It was probably one of the few things I actually liked about the comic, to be honest, and I'll admit, not owning or ever rereading the Invisibles probably increases it's stature in my head. Maybe after a few more years I'll actually start to hold it in high regard.

20:32 / 28.05.02

I can totally relate to the Mandala factor Jack, Beautiful in it's temporary nature...

I think the Invisibles will have life so long as there's someone... Stoner, weirdo, tripper who could appriecate a good mindbending... via a single issue, TPB or the whole series...

23:37 / 28.05.02

immortality of artwork is definately an indication of its value, because great art, especially great stories, gets at truths about the human experience that go beyond their own context. the invisibles may be in the context of pop culture, anarchsim, punk rock, occult, etc etc, but one of the things that makes it so resonance is how it gets at WHY these things are important to humans, rather than just showing that they are. the invisibles will be immortal, unless it is banned or sadly overlooked, because it is TRUE (in the emotional sense).

the process of sand mandala is also permanent, and gets at truth. it's an interesting example, because the truth its getting at is "nothing lasts / everything is temporary" etc -- but it's a tradition that has existed forf centuries, and the skill and craft of constructing mandalas -- in sand, on tapestry, and, most impermentently of all, in visualized meditation -- has a kind of permanency. it is certainly an interesting point to bring up buddhism while talking about the value of permanence, as these two have quite a bit to say to one another.

each iteration of the mandala is impermanent, but its eternal making remains. invisibles is criticised for being derivative, but in a way it is like the sand mandala -- it is simply a recent iteration of a story and set of ideas that have obsessed people since we developed reflexive thought.

12:50 / 29.05.02

Continuing from your point, Egypt: if, in a hundred years' time, people are still making enquiries into the themes and ideas that inform THE INVISIBLES—and I think it's a safe bet that they will be—what does it matter, in the big picture, if THE INVISIBLES books themselves have long turned to ashes and dust?

Every generation asks and answers the big questions of freedom and control for itself: the questions mutate each time they're asked, and so do the answers. Grant Morrison's "answer"—his iteration of the process, to bastardize your terminology—is just one of many, and it may already be past its sell-by date.

If not THE INVISIBLES, there will be something else—something more of its moment. And that's as it should be. What's important, I think, is that people keep asking the questions.

So to answer the question "Can THE INVISIBLES stand the test of time?" straightforwardly and without unnecessary rhetorical flights: it really doesn't matter if it does or not. It has done its job in the time and place that it was designed to do so. That we are here having this conversation is evidence of that.

Murray Hamhandler

17:02 / 29.05.02

The Invisibles was a great teacher. But when you meet the Buddha in the road...

Still, it might be nice to have tea w/the Buddha now and again.

yawn - thing's buddy

19:08 / 29.05.02

if you see a statue of the buddha....

blow it up.

20:45 / 08.06.02

a succesful work of pop must last for a planck unit to fulfill its purpose. nearly ten years from inception, here we have a whole bunch of folk who talk about it every day. does that answer the question?